Vive_La_Villa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Since June 2016 it is changing and changing rapidly. I think that's why there's a perception of racism in the UK. Because there was such a shock to the system after the ref. People were rightfully shamed into keeping their views private but Brexit told some folks that these views are now okay. Unfortunately there will always be idiots in life. In the grand scheme of things those kind of views are in the minority thankfully. They just make the loudest noise.. One example that springs to mind is some idiots start to racially abuse a person on a bus. The focus of that incident was that racism has increased after the vote, but there was hardly any emphasis on the reaction of all the other people on the bus and how they all turned on the racists. Its reactions like that from the people that make this country great. Yet the media hardly mentioned it as the agenda was the country is racist because we want to leave the EU. Not every person that voted to leave is a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: People were rightfully shamed into keeping their views private but Brexit told some folks that these views are now okay. Sorry but what happened to freedom of speech? Should people keep their views private because you don't agree with them? I think we need more control over our borders to Europe. Does that make me racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I think denying that emboldening racists is a side effect of Brexit is wrong and unfortunate. It has happened and will continue to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Just like the election of Trump emboldened US racists (including Nazis ffs). Yesterday Laura Igraham stopped just short of calling LeBron James the N word for daring to have a political opinion. On national TV. On the nation's #1 cable network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I think denying that emboldening racists is a side effect of Brexit is wrong and unfortunate. It has happened and will continue to happen. I'm not denying it. I just think it's been blown out of proportion and not as bad as people like to make out. Racism will always exist but no way will it begin to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted February 17, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Not every person that voted to leave is a racist. But every racist voted to leave. Edited February 17, 2018 by mjmooney 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I've got a good one to make you choke on your tea. Been up my grandads this morning, and I just mentioned that my daughter has not been well all week, and still ain't right. His comments were, yeah there is a lot of it going around at the minute, and I think it's all these foreigners we've let in. What do you mean? Well they have all come over, and have brought infections and diseases over with them. I absolutely pissed myself, but he honestly believes that's what it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I've got a good one to make you choke on your tea. Been up my grandads this morning, and I just mentioned that my daughter has not been well all week, and still ain't right. His comments were, yeah there is a lot of it going around at the minute, and I think it's all these foreigners we've let in. What do you mean? Well they have all come over, and have brought infections and diseases over with them. I absolutely pissed myself, but he honestly believes that's what it could be. And did you challenge him over it? Stupid, abhorrent views like that need to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: And did you challenge him over it? Stupid, abhorrent views like that need to be corrected. Of course I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 A simple 'what diseases are those?' would be enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: The false equivalencies are what get me. Apparently cracker and the N word are equally bad. It's a complete erasure of history and context. One is like sprinkling salt on a person which is annoying (and weird) and you shouldn't do, and the other is sprinkling salt onto a centuries old open wound. Not. The. Same. Thing. I remember when they refused Farrakhan entry into this country. The hypocrisy behind that decision was unreal. The fear of an intellectual black man, that he may awaken minds with a dreadful truth . You can't ignore guilt, innocence demands that it be confronted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted February 17, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Sorry but what happened to freedom of speech? Should people keep their views private because you don't agree with them? I think we need more control over our borders to Europe. Does that make me racist? No, because it's not a racist opinion. People have the right to speak their mind. It doesn't mean other people have to accept that opinion, or that there aren't consequences for the way your opinions are shared and the impact they have on others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 This is the video I was talking about btw. "Jumb dock alert". Yes because he's the dumb one. I honestly can't believe this aired on a mainstream news network and nobody lost their jobs over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, Keyblade said: A simple 'what diseases are those?' would be enough He's 82, and has been reading the Mail for decades. It did make me laugh though, because it's so ludicrous . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted February 17, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: As much as I dislike the UK since that ref, I do have to agree with Viva that the UK is probably one of the less racist places to live but (and this is a very large but) No need to bring Micah Richards into this. Racist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Do your research. There are not many places in the world that is are as integrated as us and minorties have the opportunities they do. In so many cases they have far more opportunities as in a minority in this country than as a majority in the country they or their parents / grand parents come from. That is a fact. It's far from perfect. But it could be so much worse. Where we've come in such a short time is incredible in my opinion. It's like that scene in the shop from Bottom to me "British racism Ritchie? Best in the world!" It's an AMAZINGLY complex issue. I agree we've achieved things as a nation to be proud of and fwiw I tend to agree with your overall assertion there that we've come a long way in a short time. The things you state there may well be facts. But they are basically a handful on facts that are not necessarily representative of the entire 'sphere of facts' that collectively make up knowledge. What is the proxy? (sorry to get statistical, but how are you measuring that?). As there is no way of ever being able to measure 'racism' as a human phenomena in order to produce any analysis on the topic you need to pick some factors to use as a proxy. That may be things we actually have data on like number of arrests for racist related crime, number of reported racial crimes, numbers on racial diversity in the workplace, salary differences, geographical clusters and so on. While they are incredibly important and useful, they are still just proxy's. Also the effectiveness of each proxy as a measure could alter as we evolve. What may have been a reasonable approximation for 'racism' 20-30 years ago may not accurately represent the experiences of the people actually suffering at the hands of racism. Think of it in the context of sexism. Things that we've always had a good handle on are things like women's health (birth mortality rates etc), salaries in the workplace, numbers in the workforce and so on. Things that typically have a measurable unit (like salaries, money, numbers, numbers of people) and/or things that involve an interaction with the state (such as hospital visits, a death, taxes, police interaction) are also easier to monitor because there is a record. So it's really important to measure these things but if women's experience of sexism prevails in the form of being groped (for which there is no objective metric that exists) and their experience of it remains unchanged, then regardless of the measures that indicate improvements (which are non-the less valid and are indeed indicators of progress), they are not alone enough to argue that sexism isn't an issue or has improved. Because sexism as a concept far exceeds the boundaries of the metrics. Also I think it's worth mentioning that looking at things within the bubble of Britain ignores what our role is and has been outside of it. And if we're talking about institutional racism on a global level as a member of the G7G14G20 or whatever it is now do we ignore the economic disparity in the global system as a mere product of capitalism and ignore how we gained that priviledge? It could indeed be argued that British racism, in a historical context, has indeed been the best. But I'm waffling now and talking statistics when all I did was try to remind you that (like all of us) there are stories and facts that you may not be aware of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 40 minutes ago, mjmooney said: But every racist voted to leave. Ain't that the truth ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted February 17, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Keyblade said: This is the video I was talking about btw. "Jumb dock alert". Yes because he's the dumb one. I honestly can't believe this aired on a mainstream news network and nobody lost their jobs over it. Absolute whopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: I remember when they refused Farrakhan entry into this country. The hypocrisy behind that decision was unreal. The fear of an intellectual black man, that he may awaken minds with a dreadful truth . You can't ignore guilt, innocence demands that it be confronted. I thought he was refused because of his antisemitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: He's 82, and has been reading the Mail for decades. It did make me laugh though, because it's so ludicrous . I'm sure I have read that levels of TB, hepatitis and HIV have increased as immigration into the UK has increased. That is what your grandad may be on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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