Racism

[Chindie]

There is evidence that the world discriminates against black people. Experiments have been done where job applications and CVs have been submitted for job roles under names more associated with a black background and others under more non-black sounding names, of equal quality, and the black names are less successful. That's one of many that have been done on similar themes.

How you decide to classify that kind of racism (is it that black people are viewed as a worse standard of employee? Is it the interviewers just don't like black people? Is it an assumption that a black person will be from a poor background and that, regardless of the strength of the application, is then seen as a negative against them? Is there historic prejudice in play? Etc) is neither here nor there... There's something going on. In all likelihood it's a very complex subject with lots of things in play... I'm not sure its black peoples fault.

[AvfcRigo82]

26 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Do the Indians have the secret sauce?

[Keyblade]

12 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I wanted your view. You seem to know a lot about oppression. 

That's the problem, you think opinions and anecdotal evidence trump well researched facts and statistics. You work backwards from your conclusion instead of surveying the evidence to come to it...which is what the article you are ignoring in favor of your opinion does.

[Keyblade]

Imagine being at least 50% likely to land a job than your white counterpart of identical qualification simply because of your race. Or being denied housing at a similarly disproportionate rate for the same reason. The two bedrocks of your life and livelihood. 

Then imagine being told by the same people who have a leg up on you to suck it up, you're not at a disadvantage at all. You're imagining it. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. We all face racism equally. I know a guy who knows a guy that got beat up while being called a cracker. Infuriating.

[Chindie]

In fairness a black kid called me chalky at school once. I was a bit confused for a second and that was it. We're equal of course.

[sheepyvillian]

John Terry, anyone ?

[Vive_La_Villa]

8 hours ago, Keyblade said:

That's the problem, you think opinions and anecdotal evidence trump well researched facts and statistics. You work backwards from your conclusion instead of surveying the evidence to come to it...which is what the article you are ignoring in favor of your opinion does.

The article only address Indians and Pakistanis. If Indians are able to fight the social barriers than why are other races not able to?  

8 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Imagine being at least 50% likely to land a job than your white counterpart of identical qualification simply because of your race. Or being denied housing at a similarly disproportionate rate for the same reason. The two bedrocks of your life and livelihood. 

Then imagine being told by the same people who have a leg up on you to suck it up, you're not at a disadvantage at all. You're imagining it. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. We all face racism equally. I know a guy who knows a guy that got beat up while being called a cracker. Infuriating.

Who the hell said that? Totally twisted what I was talking about over the past two pages.  I never once said that barriers did not exist for non whites. I asked the question that if one particular race of people are able to fight it then why aren't others?

i also never once said we all face racism equally. I said that white people are starting to suffer from more racism and this also needs to be acknowledged. 

The problem here is it seems like your entire experience of racial issues are based on stats and articles whereas I also have first hand experience. I'm not just taking about a white guy being called honky ffs.

edit: By the way if I knew I was 50% more unlikely to get a job because of my race it would actually make me more motivated to get on. But I guess everybody is different. 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa

[Vive_La_Villa]

8 hours ago, Chindie said:

In fairness a black kid called me chalky at school once. I was a bit confused for a second and that was it. We're equal of course.

I saw a white guy get called white toast once. It was quite amusing. 

[VILLAMARV]

I'm sure many of you would have seen this when it aired on the Beeb some years back. But the lady from the clips a few pages back is famous for this experiment, which she used to use on kids in the classroom back in the day to teach them about racism. What is interesting to me about this vid is not the experiment or the results but the reactions from the participants. If you have 45mins to spare. Watch this. Many of the points made over the last few pages are made within. It's called Blue eyes/Brown eyes.

edit: maybe it was on C4 actually, either way it's British.

Edited February 17, 2018 by VILLAMARV

[sheepyvillian]

On 20/12/2017 at 06:29, Jon said:

White people 'blacking up' to mock a black person (which is what has hapeened here) is pretty racist in my book.  

What other reason but to lampoon ?

Edited February 17, 2018 by sheepyvillian

[sheepyvillian]

On 16/02/2018 at 00:57, Keyblade said:

That's exactly my point. Racism is much bigger and goes much deeper than some derogatory names.

Also when when it comes to the epithets, you're still making a false equivalence. The N word or the P word in the UK for example are tied to a history of hurt and unspeakable oppression compared to meaningless slurs like cracker or honky. 

Think about how you're drawing an equivalency there. 

The ignorance of this whole issue is frightening.

[snowychap]

24 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

The article only address Indians and Pakistanis. If Indians are able to fight the social barriers than why are other races not able to?

Reread the article. It explains some of the differences between the two ethnic groups that it is comparing whilst also saying, towards the end:

Quote

What’s more, we must also remember that, despite their over-representation in top professions, many Indians – like other ethnic minorities – still face substantial ethnic penalties in the labour market...

That one ethnic group has had relatively more success than one other (or many others, perhaps) should reinforce the notion it's a complicated series of issues that we're discussing. As such, one ought to be very careful before coming to precise positions merely from anecdote.

[sheepyvillian]

On 15/02/2018 at 20:31, Keyblade said:

Political correctness is just politeness and empathy, which you would expect most decent humans to employ anyway. It shouldn't be a dirty word.

Yes some people take it to extremes but that doesn't negate its importance. Thinking that it does is quite telling about what a person really thinks imo. 

Ha, ha.

[Keyblade]

29 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

The ignorance of this whole issue is frightening.

The false equivalencies are what get me. Apparently cracker and the N word are equally bad. It's a complete erasure of history and context.

One is like sprinkling salt on a person which is annoying (and weird) and you shouldn't do, and the other is sprinkling salt onto a centuries old open wound. Not. The. Same. Thing.

[Seat68]

Keyblade. Not just for gifs. 

[LondonLax]

It just comes down to a lack of empathy. Not everyone is capable of experiencing empathy unfortunately. 

Some people have a bad experience in life and say to themselves "I had a bad experience so I know what it's like to have a bad experience. Those other people shouldn't complain because we all have bad experiences."

These people are not capable of seeing the totally different world they live in compared to other people.  

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The false equivalencies are what get me. Apparently cracker and the N word are equally bad. It's a complete erasure of history and context.

One is like sprinkling salt on a person which is annoying (and weird) and you shouldn't do, and the other is sprinkling salt onto a centuries old open wound. Not. The. Same. Thing.

Again not one person has said this. You're making things up now to suit your arguments 

[Seat68]

4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Again not one person has said this. You're making things up now to suit your arguments 

Google cracker as bad as n word, but use the full word. People do say it. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

It just comes down to a lack of empathy. Not everyone is capable of experiencing empathy unfortunately. 

Some people have a bad experience in life and say to themselves "I had a bad experience so I know what it's like to have a bad experience. Those other people shouldn't complain because we all have bad experiences."

These people are not capable of seeing the totally different world they live in compared to other people.  

Maybe. I just get the impression that many with the strongest views on here such as @Keyblade about the injustices of non whites are themselves White British without really much involvement in their lives with non white people (beyond day to day stuff of course).

So they are basing their whole arguments on stats and articles. I respect the empathy but it also deep down smacks of superiority complex. I.e. If you're not white in the western world then you are all disadvantaged. We are so much luckier than you. Poor non whites. Lets give them a chance. 

I could be wrong about that though. 

[mjmooney]

Heard an interesting piece on the radio the other day, about black classical musicians. Historically, very few of them passed auditions for orchestras when up against white applicants.  The judges always insisted it was purely on merit. But in the last few years, several orhestras have introduced 'blind' auditions, where the applicant plays behind a screen. There has been a statistically significant rise in the number of successful black applicants.