London Bridge Incident

[Chindie]

Theresa has said enough is enough.

Well, that's nice. What liberties can she grab?

[peterms]

Lobby correspondent bravely challenges Isis:

And receives support:

 

[TrentVilla]

Just now, Chindie said:

Theresa has said enough is enough.

Well, that's nice. What liberties can she grab?

Confiscate everyone's knifes and cars I assume.

[Rugeley Villa]

11 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

If they identify them as 'known to authorities' or were part of the '3000+ list' then I don't think its going to end well. I fear for where this is going to go i.e revenge attacks, martial law type stuff, breakdown of society. Its going to be a twisted evil type of civil war out there in years to come as I can't see huge swathes of the British public putting up with this for much longer if its repeatedly going to be a 'home grown' thing. I guarantee that the scary idea of the most known to be dangerous people (the tip top worst of the list of 3000+ in this country) be terminated as a prevention/precaution will be suggested. What's even more scary is that I find myself becoming less than 100% dead set against that idea. That upsets me.

 

This is where I see it going. At somepoint things are going to get very ugly and we are going to find ourselves in a situation where we think **** me how did we get here. You cannot 100% prove anything which is a shame because if you could I'd have all of them terminated. Anyone with extremist views who recruit and wish to carry out violence against innocent people would be gone.

[Rugeley Villa]

2 minutes ago, peterms said:

Lobby correspondent bravely challenges Isis:

And receives support:

 

Silly people.

[Dodgyknees]

10 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

 

Had to do terrorism training at work recently. As a key holder I have been told to go 'different routes to work', just incase somebody watches our building at any point. Scary but the reality we live in.

The run, hide, tell thing was part of the training and video about people in an office block getting to safety. Actually a really interesting video.

[jon_c]

7 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Theresa has said enough is enough.

Well, that's nice. What liberties can she grab?

I just listened to her speech, she mentioned wanting control of the internet about five times. She also said she wanted to take away the "safe spaces" for terrorists in Iran and Syria with military intervention against ISIS. I'll be interested to see if she realised what she just said, and will take that military action in the middle east.

[jon_c]

10 minutes ago, peterms said:

Lobby correspondent bravely challenges Isis:

And receives support:

 

Sorry, what?

[Chindie]

1 minute ago, jon_c said:

I just listened to her speech, she mentioned wanting control of the internet about five times. She also said she wanted to take away the "safe spaces" for terrorists in Iran and Syria with military intervention against ISIS. I'll be interested to see if she realised what she just said, and will take that military action in the middle east.

Ah, and theres me thinking she'd take a careful response and not simply scream POWER like Jeremy Clarkson hooning it round a corner in a Lambo.

Tsk.

[Guest av1]

11 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Theresa has said enough is enough.

 

I wonderif that extends to stopping pandering to Saudi Arabia?

[Davkaus]

Ah, how quickly this had been manipulated into just another justification for May's desired authoritarian regime. 

[Chindie]

Just now, av1 said:

I wonderif that extends to stopping pandering to Saudi Arabia?

I think you'll find thats very sensitive information and you shouldn't throw accusations around at such a sensitive time. Saudi are very important partners of ours and there is absolutely no connection between their historical connection to the exact versions of Islam's teachings these nutters are using to justify their barbarity that Saudi publishes and disseminates and the money flooding to these groups.

It's quite clear it's the internets fault, and freedoms fault.

[Risso]

16 minutes ago, peterms said:

Lobby correspondent bravely challenges Isis:

And receives support:

 

Saw that earlier.  What an attention seeking bellend.  Lots and lots of replies mercilessly taking the piss out of him, which was good to see.  "By the power of twatskull!" being a good one.

[Davkaus]

Sky were showing live footage from their helicopter of police surrounding a block of flats looking to arrest a suspect. I'm sure the suspect appreciated the live updates of the police officers' positions. 

If broadcasting that isn't criminal, it should be. 

[Dodgyknees]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

 

Spot on AWOL on all points.

On the subject of Policing and arming the Police the issue is far more complex than the complaints about budget cuts.

I'm against the cuts and the reduction in the number of Police but the reality is that even if we still had the additional 19k offices it wouldn't have stopped these events.

As for armed Police, the Met are trying to recruit more but can't the truth is that not many Police officers want the job. That is in no small part due to the fact that if they due use their weapon they are likely to face up to 2 years of investigation of their actions.

The job of the armed response units are near impossible and almost entirely thankless. That is before you even think of the actual trauma of being involved in a shooting event.

So the prospect of arming Police through London is a very very very long way off. 

I don't disagree with you, but I do think there are issues with a lack of Police.

It might not have stopped it, but from those I have spoken to, there is a lack of information coming in off the streets now. Police are reacting to things too late - when before they were proactive. So although the attacks might still have happened pre cuts, I think we need to look at the fact that there are not enough numbers of police to cope and information is bound to be lost because of this.

(Typing this fast as I am literaly heading out the door in 2 mins)

[Guest av1]

20 minutes ago, peterms said:

Lobby correspondent bravely challenges Isis:

 

He'll probably claim it on expenses. 

[Awol]

6 minutes ago, jon_c said:

I just listened to her speech, she mentioned wanting control of the internet about five times. She also said she wanted to take away the "safe spaces" for terrorists in Iran and Syria with military intervention against ISIS. I'll be interested to see if she realised what she just said, and will take that military action in the middle east.

On the military action against ISIS we are already doing as much as we're likely to so that's a talk tough at no cost soundbite. On the internet side of things it's worth thinking about the numbers again. 

MI5 are saying they have an interest in around 25,000 people in the UK. Being honest the overwhelming majority of those will be of the Islamic faith. The last census put the UK Muslim population at around 2.7 million, so they are directly monitoring or have some level of concern about almost 1% of the UK Muslim population. If you assume the vast majority are male and the Muslim population breaks down 50/50 by gender that's closer to 2% of the male Muslim population. 

We know MI5 can't physically monitor even a fraction of the number they are worried about without becoming the Stasi - a non starter. The force multiplier is then the ability to monitor electronic communication in all its forms. It's not a panacea but undoubtedly it helps. 

So that's the real debate, freedom from potential surveillance vs enhanced security against terrorism. It's nuanced, complex and requires a proper discussion, not charactures of despots vs terrorist lovers. 

[Davkaus]

It's hard to imagine that people that know they're likely targets for surveillance won't figure out how to use Tor, or a VPN hosted outside of the UK. 

Discussions of liberty versus security Miss the point, it's just not going to work. 

[Awol]

10 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

It's hard to imagine that people that know they're likely targets for surveillance won't figure out how to use Tor, or a VPN hosted outside of the UK. 

Discussions of liberty versus security Miss the point, it's just not going to work. 

How do you think so many plots have been disrupted over the last decade? 

[Dr_Pangloss]

21 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Sky were showing live footage from their helicopter of police surrounding a block of flats looking to arrest a suspect. I'm sure the suspect appreciated the live updates of the police officers' positions. 

If broadcasting that isn't criminal, it should be. 

They were also giving details of police location and making inferences about their tactics as they were storming the area. It is just highly irresponsible. Also what I find annoying is the amount of dickheads floating around with smartphones filming the gravely injured as they were receiving CPR.