bickster Posted October 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2022 1 minute ago, maltesemike said: Hence my careful use of “seems”. Followed by a not very careful interpretation of an interpretation. The person interpreting the speech even says he's pushing for a New World Order. whilst not saying "based on Russian principals" whose principals do you think he's pushing for? Brazil's? It is absolutely implied to be by Russian principals by the mere fact it's Putin saying in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltesemike Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, bickster said: Followed by a not very careful interpretation of an interpretation. The person interpreting the speech even says he's pushing for a New World Order. whilst not saying "based on Russian principals" whose principals do you think he's pushing for? Brazil's? It is absolutely implied to be by Russian principals by the mere fact it's Putin saying in Let’s hope it’s not Brazil’s either as we’d have no trees left anywhere. Yes, it’s an interpretation of an interpretation, we don’t speak Russian after all, but having read the whole thread it appears that world dominance is not his aim. Whatever the outcomes, this doesn’t end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 I think this is a very wise thread. Doubt this is the *only* explanation, but it's a very big piece of the puzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2022 45 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I think this is a very wise thread. Doubt this is the *only* explanation, but it's a very big piece of the puzzle. It fails at the second tweet Quote A telling event here was the sanctioning of pro-Russian oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk in February, seizure of his oil pipeline and other businesses and banning of his three TV stations. Russia invaded 5 days later There is absolutely nothing telling about that at all. The invasion had been planned for months if not an entire year beforehand. Medvechuk and his pipeline had absolutely no bearing on it. I do, however, think the whole thread has some merit but I think its only a small part of the reasoning behind the Invasion, there are other more major factors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2022 42 minutes ago, bickster said: The invasion had been planned for months if not an entire year beforehand. Medvechuk and his pipeline had absolutely no bearing on it. I do, however, think the whole thread has some merit but I think its only a small part of the reasoning behind the Invasion, there are other more major factors First sentence yes, second one, I think while it’s not the only reason, it’s probably the main one, just ahead of “rebuilding a Russian Empire” and “creating a legacy”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, blandy said: First sentence yes, second one, I think while it’s not the only reason, it’s probably the main one, just ahead of “rebuilding a Russian Empire” and “creating a legacy”. It's all interlinked really, they all feed into each other. You could rephrase rebuilding a Russian Empire as regaining Russia's sphere of influence and they both become the same thing. One is a symptom, the other is the endgame if you like and even the ego / legacy thing is just the personal aspect to Putin's decision making. It'll be impossible to unconnect them even in 50 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Putin’s capitalised on what he thought would be a weakened response from ‘the west’ following covid and all the socio-economic difficulties it’s caused along with them having done their dirty work on disrupting geo-politics all over the world through digital espionage and general corruption in its various forms. It’s definitely backfired but at the same time he’ll also know that as time wears on the level of support for Ukraine will no doubt reduce, so he’s probably now playing a long game having begun with a ‘blitzkrieg’ type approach (ironically, given that he’s basing the war on ‘denazifying Ukraine’). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 We’re getting close to 9 months of an invasion that has totally undressed ‘the world’s second army’, undressed the unity between totalitarian states and their dependants and a year which has united the West and democratic nations in the world more than anything else since ww2. Give it another year and I think we’ll see Ukraine triumphant in more ways than just the liberation of their territories. EU? NATO? In any case they’ll have the strongest standing army in Europe. They’ll be most experienced, have brilliant NCOs and be the proof that NATO needed that we’re superior mainly due to our training and in field assets being able to make their own calls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, bickster said: It fails at the second tweet There is absolutely nothing telling about that at all. The invasion had been planned for months if not an entire year beforehand. Medvechuk and his pipeline had absolutely no bearing on it. I do, however, think the whole thread has some merit but I think its only a small part of the reasoning behind the Invasion, there are other more major factors Sure, but I think the fact that Putin is effectively a Mafia Godfather is poorly understood outside Russia's "sphere of influence". He combines that with being an old fashioned tsar / king / dictator, and obviously uses state resources like military, intelligence services, etc. to further his aims, but a lot of his activities are really just standard organised crime - racketeering, trafficking, money laundering, theft, etc. It certainly makes sense if you look at Hungary or some of his activities in the Czech Republic (or the recent stories about industrial production of counterfeit cigarettes in the Baltics) that part of his fear of the EU is its anti-corruption drive. Edited October 28, 2022 by KentVillan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 hours ago, LondonLax said: I don’t think he wants to rule the world but I think he wants to be able to rule the ‘Russian’ world without ‘meddling’ from outside. He’s using this speech to appeal to other parts of the world who feel the same. The trouble for him is that the genie is out of the bottle with regards to the internet and social media reaching a global audience (except China) and the ideas of personal freedom spread on the internet are unsurprising pretty popular. Troublingly popular for people in his position. He was quite able to rule Russia without Western meddling. He could have closed the border. Banned all Western companies from trading there, banned all Western people from visiting. He didn't need to invade and start a war to cripple Ukraine. He's Empire building. Anything else is just a mask for his real ambitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2022 2 hours ago, KentVillan said: I think this is a very wise thread. Doubt this is the *only* explanation, but it's a very big piece of the puzzle. Zelensky was appointed on an anti corruption stance so there maybe a lot of truth to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, sidcow said: He was quite able to rule Russia without Western meddling. He could have closed the border. Banned all Western companies from trading there, banned all Western people from visiting. He didn't need to invade and start a war to cripple Ukraine. He's Empire building. Anything else is just a mask for his real ambitions. If by empire you mean the Russian speaking parts of the former Russian empire then I guess I could agree. If you mean he’s trying to conquer the world, then no I don’t agree. He probably wishes he could go back and ban western influence and set up a China style internet firewall over his former sphere of influence but it’s too late for that, maiden happened in Ukraine (and almost happened in Belarus) and parts of his empire have been slipping away to the west for years now. This might be his ‘enough is enough’ moment but he can’t turn back the tide on this. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2022 32 minutes ago, LondonLax said: This might be his ‘enough is enough’ moment but he can’t turn back the tide on this. It’s too late for Putin, but the tide will turn. Not in Europe, but the balance will shift in the world via China, India and a decline in the US (relatively). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2022 2 hours ago, blandy said: It’s too late for Putin, but the tide will turn. Not in Europe, but the balance will shift in the world via China, India and a decline in the US (relatively). Not sure about India. I think they're going to get absolutely clobbered by Global Warming. They've got some really rough times ahead. Vast swathes of the country might be uninhabitable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Russia souces are saying the Ukraine have carried out a "massive" drone attack on its Black Sea Fleet. They reported one ship with damage. They also claim it was actually UK Forces. So expect the following information to be released in the next few days. 1. This "massive" attack story is to hide the inability of Russian Ships to defend themselves. 2. There's a lot more than 1 ship damaged. Good news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 More news which is amazing if true. Its said that the Russian Military is so stretched that they have relocated the forces that defend Kalingrad. All of them. It's clear that NATO isn't going to use the opportunity to take Kalingrad. But leaving it undefended shows just how desperate its getting for Russia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 The Black Sea Attack is now being reported in Russian Press. https://tass.com/russia/1529537?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=smm_social_share "Kiev carried out a terrorist attack on the Black Sea fleet....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 50 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Its said that the Russian Military is so stretched that they have relocated the forces that defend Kalingrad. All of them. Just to add a little bit of amusement to the story. NATO has always been worried about the troops stationed at Kalingrad. There were approx. 12,000 of various types. (Tanks / Anti Tank / Anti Air, basically a bit of everything). NATO are not worried anymore because they are all dead, they are all either dead or POW's. Mostly dead from what I read. They were useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 21 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: NATO are not worried anymore because they are all dead, they are all either dead or POW's. Mostly dead from what I read. They were useless. I’d love it if that was an official press release from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 29, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Russia souces are saying the Ukraine have carried out a "massive" drone attack on its Black Sea Fleet. They reported one ship with damage. They also claim it was actually UK Forces. So expect the following information to be released in the next few days. 1. This "massive" attack story is to hide the inability of Russian Ships to defend themselves. 2. There's a lot more than 1 ship damaged. Good news. footage supposedly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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