avfc1982am Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Just now, LondonLax said: Of course. I don’t need to go through the Russian version of events that their people understand and believe. However, most people in a war feel like they have justice on their side. So did the Nazi's in the 1930's and look what that led to. There are international borders for a reason. The idea that Ukraine were going to attack Russia is utter nonsense even via NATO, and anyone that believes it is beyond compassion imo. That's just my personal opinion. If both sides were defensive and not offensive, both would be sitting at the borders now staring at each other. Thousands would be still alive and the destruction of one nation wouldn't have happened. It's not rocket science, even for the less fortunate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Presumably most of them also consider themselves to be acting in self defence against NATO aggression and meddling in their country. I'd love to ask just one Russian just how many NATO soldiers they've seen standing on Russian soil let alond firing a weapon on Russian soil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: So did the Nazi's in the 1930's and look what that led to. There are international borders for a reason. The idea that Ukraine were going to attack Russia is utter nonsense even via NATO, and anyone that believes it is beyond compassion imo. That's just my personal opinion. If both sides were defensive and not offensive, both would be sitting at the borders now staring at each other. Thousands would be still alive and the destruction of one nation wouldn't have happened. It's not rocket science, even for the less fortunate. I feel like you might have a different perspective if you had lived your whole life in Russia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Just now, LondonLax said: I feel like you might have a different perspective if you had lived your whole life in Russia. But I haven't, so it's irrelevant when giving my opinion. Especially over what I see as a moral issue. But I think in any language, religion or culture to kill someone who isn't directly trying to kill you would be deemed as immoral. Unless someone is directly attacking you then there is no need for aggression. Even Russian's understand this, especially the older generation who lived on stories of being invaded and attacked. The only thing Ukraine attacked Russian was the corrupt pro Russian political system presiding over the Ukrainian Government like a vampire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: But I haven't, so it's irrelevant when giving my opinion. Especially over what I see as a moral issue. Well it is kind of relevant when discussing whether a Russian citizen who has been called up to compulsory military service and is being shot at and mortared by *what he believes* are Ultra Nationalist Ukrainians, hell bent on wiping out Russian speakers from eastern Ukraine. Ultra Nationalists who *he believes* have been created and supported by the USA in order to destroy and destabilise the previous good relationship between the people of Russia and Ukraine, which *he believes* had this previously good relationship for decades before the USA and NATO began meddling. He possibly does feel like he is on the side of righteousness and justice when he shoots at a Ukrainian soldier, based on the information he has been given over his lifetime in Russia. I would say it is more absurd to believe 144m Russians know they are “the bad guys” but don’t mind killing Ukrainians anyway. Edited January 5, 2023 by LondonLax 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 5, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2023 It's early morning. The General addresses his troops, arrayed in front of him, eager for some words, as they are, of inspiration and encouragement. "Men, Soldiers, Brave combatants of the forces of the mother country, I have some news for you. Last night, I prayed to the Lord, and the Lord answered my prayers. I asked Him to guard our souls, to protect us from the enemy, to see us safe and victorious...but unfortunately he replied "I'm with the other side on this one, I'm afraid, you should have stayed at home". Said no one ever. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 minute ago, LondonLax said: Well it is kind of relevant when discussing whether a Russian citizen who has been called up to compulsory military service and is being shot at and mortared by *what he believes* are Ultra Nationalist Ukrainians, hell bent on wiping out Russian speakers from eastern Ukraine. Ultra Nationalists who *he believes* have been created and supported by the USA in order to destroy and destabilise the previous good relationship between the people of Russia and Ukraine, which *he believes* previously had a good relationship for decades before the USA and NATO began meddling. He possibly does feel like he is on the side of righteousness and justice when he shoots at a Ukrainian soldier, based on the information he has been given over his lifetime in Russia. I would say it is more absurd to believe 144m Russians know they are “the bad guy’s” but don’t mind killing Ukrainians anyway. I wasn't discussing anything, I just made an opinion regarding the focal point of my empathy, you was discussing my opinion. I'm telling you it's irrelevant, your saying it is relevant when discussing a Russians perspective. I'm not though, I'm only pointing out mine. I love everybody though. Okay comrade! Even the brainwashed, immoral, murdering Russians invading Ukraine who I hope get turned to fertiliser in a Ukrainian field before they can kill anyone. I feel sorrow for them too and will shed a tear and save it in a vial too commemorate this moment in years to come. This way we can save the argument about how bad I am, or how ignorant that I'm not seeing things through Russian eyes, and that I should feel sorrow for poor old Ivan who's now fighting for God and the Holy Russian Emperor Putler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) Just gone back to page 64 to see the initial posts when this all kicked off. Remember that morning well, was so engrossed in the news and a little bit worried about what might happen as far as the rest of Europe is concerned. The few pages before leading up to it were an interesting re-read as well. @Awol - haven’t heard much from yourself concerning things in Ukraine lately. Any updates/news your end? Edited January 5, 2023 by Tayls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 29 minutes ago, Tayls said: @Awol - haven’t heard much from yourself concerning things in Ukraine lately. Any updates/news your end? We’re expecting a big air raid tomorrow in Kyiv, I’ll be shaking my fist at the ceiling from underground if it comes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, Awol said: We’re expecting a big air raid tomorrow in Kyiv, I’ll be shaking my fist at the ceiling from underground if it comes. Missed your input these last few months. Good to hear from you 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Ukraine also have an orthodox Christian tradition though. This comment is a bit disingenuous. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Awol said: We’re expecting a big air raid tomorrow in Kyiv, I’ll be shaking my fist at the ceiling from underground if it comes. Wait, what? Have I missed something? You're Over There? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Wait, what? Have I missed something? You're Over There? He’s a legendary journo!! (I think). Love a good AWOL update on conflicts. Always provides good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tayls said: He’s a legendary journo!! (I think). Love a good AWOL update on conflicts. Always provides good stuff! All these years, you think you know someone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid4ever Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 14 minutes ago, mjmooney said: All these years, you think you know someone... Same as you, always thought he wore Air Force Blue based on locations and knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 5, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2023 46 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Ukraine also have an orthodox Christian tradition though. This comment is a bit disingenuous. The Ukrainian OC split from the Russian (mother) OC many months ago. Since then the Russian OC in Ukraine has been shut down due to their acting as agents of Russia and I also seem to recall there was some sort of poll conducted about whether to follow the OC Xmas tradition or the Western Xmas tradition, the OC didn’t win. The Ukrainian OC is very much on the side of Ukraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 9 minutes ago, bickster said: The Ukrainian OC split from the Russian (mother) OC many months ago. Since then the Russian OC in Ukraine has been shut down due to their acting as agents of Russia and I also seem to recall there was some sort of poll conducted about whether to follow the OC Xmas tradition or the Western Xmas tradition, the OC didn’t win. The Ukrainian OC is very much on the side of Ukraine But the point is Christmas is on the 7th for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church also. It’s the ‘big day’ over in that part of the world. I believe this year they have for the first time also opened the church for Christmas services on the 25th if people wanted to but it’s not like there has ever been a tradition of that in Ukraine like she seems to be implying. I noticed she’s backtracked on the dates on a follow up post though and I get what she’s saying there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Tayls said: He’s a legendary journo!! (I think). Love a good AWOL update on conflicts. Always provides good stuff! Nah , he’s just a naughty boy who wears dodgy shirts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Awol Posted January 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, mjmooney said: Wait, what? Have I missed something? You're Over There? Back and forth. I’m not fighting the war, just trying to help out those who are. Edit: and not a Journo, far too verbose. Edited January 5, 2023 by Awol 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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