mjmooney Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2023 10 hours ago, avfc1982am said: What use is a tank that goes backwards ffs. <insert 'Italian army' joke here> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, bickster said: Isn't it Rheinmetall that are preventing this? As a Swiss company they are bound by Swiss laws which prevent such third party transfers? Rheinmetall is a German company. The only component in the Leopard that is Swiss (in some cases) is the ammunition. The company itself has said they have no issue with it, and have refurbished several other vehicle types to send (M1117's for example). It's German MOD, Scholz and the left of his party that is holding it back. The two other producers of the Leopard 2 are also German. Rheinmetall also produced the IRIS-T and other German equipment already sent. The excuse from the German government was that no one has sent Western tanks so far, so this French tank being sent will put a big dent in their excuse. And the hypo-criticality in Swiss 'neutrality' when they're one of the largest producers of ammunition in the world is just beyond me tbh. Edited January 5, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Definitely a build up of Russian troops along the P66 from Kremina up to Svatove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Bradley's spotted in Wroclaw according to Twitter. Big deal if true isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 59 minutes ago, magnkarl said: And the hypo-criticality in Swiss 'neutrality' when they're one of the largest producers of ammunition in the world is just beyond me tbh. The Swiss are neutral because that's where the banks are that hold all the money you stole during whatever war you're in. Edited January 5, 2023 by villa89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 hours ago, bickster said: 2 Million men to be mobilized. Hard to believe that will be possible without a full revolt. NATO really need to end this now, it's laughable they haven't even sent the Ukrainians proper tanks. What's the thought process? Let's wait until 500,000 men are dead and then we'll send them this vast array of weapons we have lying around the place and end the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) Buckle up, Vlad. Trainload upon trainload of AFV's have been diverted to areas under Ukrainian control near to Svatove, Kreminna and Vuhledar. Regiments of artillery are crushing Russian logistics in all areas. Where will the hammer fall this time? My guess is none of the above, but rather straight down to Melitopol. Edited January 5, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Buckle up, Vlad. Trainload upon trainload of AFV's have been diverted to areas under Ukrainian control near to Svatove, Kreminna and Vuhledar. Regiments of artillery are crushing Russian logistics in all areas. Where will the hammer fall this time? My guess is none of the above, but rather straight down to Melitopol. Yeah, I've always thought the next major offensive from Ukraine would be towards Melitopol to free Zaphorizhiahia and Kherson regions. It's also the area of least resistance and potential weak point for Russia, who are concentrated on the Donbass. It's like Russia cant stand the thought of losing they are willing to sacrifice everything on one area and lose thousands upon thousands to achieve something that will eventually get taken back, even if they achieve a little gain now. It's a monumental f*** up by Russia, and very much ego driven now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: Yeah, I've always thought the next major offensive from Ukraine would be towards Melitopol to free Zaphorizhiahia and Kherson regions. It's also the area of least resistance and potential weak point for Russia, who are concentrated on the Donbass. It's like Russia cant stand the thought of losing they are willing to sacrifice everything on one area and lose thousands upon thousands to achieve something that will eventually get taken back, even if they achieve a little gain now. It's a monumental f*** up by Russia, and very much ego driven now. Personally I'm looking forward to when the Russian air force is going to try to help Putin's next wave of mobiks, it'll be the first time the Patriot and NASAM goes up against Russian not so top of the line SU and MiG35's. The plan seems to be to push down from Belarus again, just this time with even older tanks, blown up roads and a prepared enemy. Maybe Ukraine should just blast the Benny Hill theme song over the border.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Are we not feeling for the Russians who are being forced to go to war. 100s of thousands more are going to get killed, it's just barbaric and needs NATO to intervene. Most of these are brainwashed innocent Russians too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Are we not feeling for the Russians who are being forced to go to war. 100s of thousands more are going to get killed, it's just barbaric and needs NATO to intervene. Most of these are brainwashed innocent Russians too. Absolutely. But that's what happens. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Are we not feeling for the Russians who are being forced to go to war. 100s of thousands more are going to get killed, it's just barbaric and needs NATO to intervene. Most of these are brainwashed innocent Russians too. In my book the people who at least initially followed orders to rape, pillage, indiscriminately bomb and maim civilians in an illegal war doesn't need my compassion. They need about as much compassion as the SS-regiments of the German Reich. Forcibly conscripted mobiks can and should surrender, or else they're also compliant. Ukraine has shown multiple times that PoW's are treated fairly, and calls to their relatives show relatives are left unharmed. There's absolutely no reason for any Russian to fight against Ukraine. If they do end up fighting, they'll suffer the same fate as their raping, thieving, genocidal countrymen and fertilise Ukrainian soil. Edited January 5, 2023 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Are we not feeling for the Russians who are being forced to go to war. 100s of thousands more are going to get killed, it's just barbaric and needs NATO to intervene. Most of these are brainwashed innocent Russians too. It's an absolute tragedy. Not sure what NATO can do though. The west has been pleading with Russia to call off the war. Only Putin can save those poor innocents but he just doesn't want to. He's pure evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 minute ago, magnkarl said: In my book the people who at least initially followed orders to rape, pillage, indiscriminately bomb and maim civilians in an illegal war doesn't need my compassion. They need about as much compassion as the SS-regiments of the German Reich. Forcibly conscripted mobiks can and should surrender, or else they're also compliant. Ukraine has shown multiple times that PoW's are treated fairly, and calls to their relatives show relatives are left unharmed. There's absolutely no reason for any Russian to fight against Ukraine. That's a long title for your book. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: That's a long title for your book. Hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Are we not feeling for the Russians who are being forced to go to war. 100s of thousands more are going to get killed, it's just barbaric and needs NATO to intervene. Most of these are brainwashed innocent Russians too. I'm kind of becoming apathetic towards Russian's in a similar way to how apathetic they've become regarding the destruction of Ukraine and it's population. Of course feeling empathy to some but there are though a large number that re either pro destruction of Ukraine or passive as to the actions of the Kremlin. In this day and age anyone on the planet that thinks it is normal or okay to kill, maim or destroy other humans for any means other than self defence does not deserve empathy or compassion imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 14 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: I'm kind of becoming apathetic towards Russian's in a similar way to how apathetic they've become regarding the destruction of Ukraine and it's population. Of course feeling empathy to some but there are though a large number that re either pro destruction of Ukraine or passive as to the actions of the Kremlin. In this day and age anyone on the planet that thinks it is normal or okay to kill, maim or destroy other humans for any means other than self defence does not deserve empathy or compassion imo. Presumably most of them also consider themselves to be acting in self defence against NATO aggression and meddling in their country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 minute ago, LondonLax said: Presumably most of them also consider themselves to be acting in self defence against NATO aggression and meddling in their country. By wandering into Ukraine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 minute ago, avfc1982am said: By wandering into Ukraine? Of course. I don’t need to go through the Russian version of events that their people understand and believe. However, most people in a war feel like they have justice on their side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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