TRO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 33 minutes ago, vreitti said: Then Bruce should have addressed this in the summer. If Hogan isn't in his plans, he should've replaced him. The same goes for RMC. Surely not even Bruce is daft enough to think that the contribution of Gabby would at any point be significant? Seeing as both Davis and RHM are youths, I don't think he was ever going to rely much on them either. Once again, it's quite clear Bruce doesn't really operate with any sort of plan. He sometimes manages to stumble upon a formula, that works for a while, e.g. Davis. But they're almost always forced on him, due to injuries and what not. There is no way these sort of 'chance solutions' will be enough to see us promoted. Do you know......in an hypothetical sense i would like steve Bruce to go on gardening leave and let another manager take over..... It would very, very interesting to see the posts on here, if in fact it made no difference to our performances and results. where on earth would to put the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, TRO said: We started the season with: Hogan Kodjia RHM Davis Gabby In the squad.. ....In terms of long term injuries, they have been decimated. now most teams have 6 or 7 ...Derby have 8......yes the club are at fault here, for having too few in the squad to start with. so maybe you are missing something. If we assume that Bruce is the one making the transfer calls (I don't, but let's) then he also got rid of Gestede, Ayew, Kozak and loaned out McCormack. I'm fine with getting all those players out the door (although the way we did it last January was a costly mistake with Kodija gone) but that's 4 attackers out and only Davis brought up from the U23's to replace them this summer even thou Hogan didn't fit the mold. If Bruce is the one behind transfers and deciding the look of the squad then it's on him that we only have those striker options. (Once again I don't think Bruce has complete control on this matter) We have signed and loaned 4 midfielders in the summer, yet no forwards despite those departures. Once again a similar mistake to what was done last January. Edited December 12, 2017 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, TRO said: We started the season with: Hogan Kodjia RHM Davis Gabby In the squad.. ....In terms of long term injuries, they have been decimated. now most teams have 6 or 7 ...Derby have 8......yes the club are at fault here, for having too few in the squad to start with. so maybe you are missing something. They haven't all been out for long periods simultaneously now have they? I concur though, we certainly do have too few strikers, which is why I rightfully criticise Bruce for letting RMC go without a replacement. Maybe Bruce actually intended to make good usage of Gabby, how ever bizarre that might sound. Your guess is as good as mine. However, I still don't believe for a second he planned on using the young guns all that much. All in all, an experienced chap like Bruce should've recognised the threadbareness of our forward options IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, TRO said: Do you know......in an hypothetical sense i would like steve Bruce to go on gardening leave and let another manager take over..... It would very, very interesting to see the posts on here, if in fact it made no difference to our performances and results. where on earth would to put the blame. Moot point, seeing as we both know it would Whatever your stance on Bruce, I know you aren't blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, vreitti said: Moot point, seeing as we both know it would Whatever your stance on Bruce, I know you aren't blind. I'm curious; do you think our results would get better, or worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm curious; do you think our results would get better, or worse? Assuming the replacement wouldn't be another dinosaur, then yes of course the results would get better. Seriously though, I do recognise we have important players injured and all that, but the way we 'play', a primary school teacher would most likely be able to improve us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 37 minutes ago, DCJonah said: That's not what i'm saying at all. Not for the first time you're arguing over a point not being made. Just pointing out you can't use a phrase like we are bankrupt upfront as yet another way to defend the manager. Well, if thats not what you are saying.....you need to decipher it for me, so I understand. but for me it reads.....Strikers not scoring so its Steve Bruce's fault. If you are saying, he should have signed more for the squad, I would agree......but I would have to hear from Dr Tone on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, vreitti said: Assuming the replacement wouldn't be another dinosaur, then yes of course the results would get better. Seriously though, I do recognise we have important players injured and all that, but the way we 'play', a primary school teacher would most likely be able to improve us. respectfully, can you explain what is meant by a "Dinosaur" I understand that its a loose term to describe the style of football being from past times, but teams still adopt it if they are losing games, or they don't have sufficient fire power to take the game to the opposition. Blimey I remember 5-3-2.......whats more attacking was that during the 50's and prior but surely you would set your team up to consider Not concede goals, by exposing the back four to not concede ground in midfield. They say the best form of defence is Attack and I would go along with that.....but the priviso is that you have to have the forwards who can implement it. Right now with our injuries......We don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 21 minutes ago, TRO said: Well, if thats not what you are saying.....you need to decipher it for me, so I understand. but for me it reads.....Strikers not scoring so its Steve Bruce's fault. If you are saying, he should have signed more for the squad, I would agree......but I would have to hear from Dr Tone on that. I'm saying using lack of firepower upfront to defend dropped points is not a valid defence of the manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: I'm saying using lack of firepower upfront to defend dropped points is not a valid defence of the manager Ok.....we have no forward line who can score and if its not a point of mitigation. I'm out ,sorry...case closed here. Edited December 12, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, TRO said: but teams still adopt it if they are losing games, or they don't have sufficient fire power to take the game to the opposition. Yes, but we adapt it as our one and only game plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 56 minutes ago, vreitti said: Yes, but we adapt it as our one and only game plan. when you have not much else is it surprising? Look if you think I am going to come on here and nonchalantly defend Steve Bruce without any rationale for doing so......you are very much mistaken. If all he has got is a "wet behind the ears" "willing horse" to hold the ball up as opposed to taking the game to the opposition.....what exactly is he supposed to do.....other than wail outside the chairmans door until Jan Arrives. come on lets get sensible here If he opened up and still failed to score and we lost thats even more ammunition to hammer him with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 hours ago, vreitti said: They haven't all been out for long periods simultaneously now have they? I concur though, we certainly do have too few strikers, which is why I rightfully criticise Bruce for letting RMC go without a replacement. Maybe Bruce actually intended to make good usage of Gabby, how ever bizarre that might sound. Your guess is as good as mine. However, I still don't believe for a second he planned on using the young guns all that much. All in all, an experienced chap like Bruce should've recognised the threadbareness of our forward options IMHO. Go back to the last few games before millwall how many strikers have been on our bench? (Hint rhymes with hero) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, TRO said: when you have not much else is it surprising? Look if you think I am going to come on here and nonchalantly defend Steve Bruce without any rationale for doing so......you are very much mistaken. If all he has got is a "wet behind the ears" "willing horse" to hold the ball up as opposed to taking the game to the opposition.....what exactly is he supposed to do.....other than wail outside the chairmans door until Jan Arrives. come on lets get sensible here If he opened up and still failed to score and we lost thats even more ammunition to hammer him with. How about changing things around a bit, to perhaps fit in Hogan, and actually get something out of a 12M purchase? No sorry I forgot, a manager is only allowed a single tactic. Bruce is choosing to stick with Davis and the same approach. It's his prerogative, and I sincerely hope he knows what he's doing. But please don't make it out that there are no other viable options, that's just false, and you know it. E. Maybe, just maybe a more positive attacking approach would yield better performances, even in the face of a defeat, and maybe the supporters wouldn't then come down on him so hard? Edited December 12, 2017 by vreitti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, vreitti said: How about changing things around a bit, to perhaps fit in Hogan, and actually get something out of a 12M purchase? No sorry I forgot, a manager is only allowed a single tactic. Bruce is choosing to stick with Davis and the same approach. It's his prerogative, and I sincerely hope he knows what he's doing. But please don't make it out that there are no other viable options, that's just false, and you know it. Look there are options and stabs in the dark ......I think what he has at present is very unreliable options. I kinda get it to play Hogan, but its his head on the block , not mine or yours. for whatever reason and we have dissected that enough.......Hogan has just returned from injury and never looked like scoring before his injury......We are going for promotion( at the moment) by clinging to the pack.....would you say it was a risk......maybe its risk he has to make, I agree with you by the way....play him.....but I have low expectation of the outcome. I just happen to think there is time for criticism......maybe the shape the squad is in for injuries to key personnel......now is not the time IMO Edited December 12, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, vreitti said: How about changing things around a bit, to perhaps fit in Hogan, and actually get something out of a 12M purchase? No sorry I forgot, a manager is only allowed a single tactic. Bruce is choosing to stick with Davis and the same approach. It's his prerogative, and I sincerely hope he knows what he's doing. But please don't make it out that there are no other viable options, that's just false, and you know it. That sounds like a bit of frustration, getting the better of you. 5 mill was the fee for me.....but hey, we probably wouldn't have got him......easy sitting here isn't it. I was pleased when we signed him.....but what do I know, I was pleased when we signed Curcic too.....oh we won't go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 52 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: (Hint rhymes with hero) No it doesn't 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 While it wasn't going to work out for him, let's remember McCormack was still playing for us in pre season. We could've just kept him and used him off the bench. SB's choice to loan him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 @TRO Your arguement has no foundation simply on the fact that the games/points we have won have been largely from goals scored by our MFers (Adomah, Hourihane, Onomah, Snod) Our goals scored total by „players other than our designated forwards Kodjia, Davis, Gaby & Hogan“ is dwarfed by the rest of the squad. So, can we deduce from that stat that there is more than 1 section of players able to score. That being a fact would support the arguement that „A team can play so as to score goals from players other than main strikers“ You just have to ser up the team that way. Keeping the „potential“ goal scorers further away from the opponents goal by sitting back & Hoofing to whoever stands isolated on the oppositions last man, be that Davis, Kodjia or Hogan, hoping that „something will happen“ or the ball sticks long enough up top for those potential goalscorers to advance is a poor plan, giving credit to Bruce if he is indeed capable of thinking that far ahead. You can not absolve someone of the blame if that someone is in control of the situation that is failing the objective. to score more than the opponents in each individual game to amass an amount of points to gain promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: @TRO Your arguement has no foundation simply on the fact that the games/points we have won have been largely from goals scored by our MFers (Adomah, Hourihane, Onomah, Snod) Our goals scored total by „players other than our designated forwards Kodjia, Davis, Gaby & Hogan“ is dwarfed by the rest of the squad. So, can we deduce from that stat that there is more than 1 section of players able to score. That being a fact would support the arguement that „A team can play so as to score goals from players other than main strikers“ You just have to ser up the team that way. Keeping the „potential“ goal scorers further away from the opponents goal by sitting back & Hoofing to whoever stands isolated on the oppositions last man, be that Davis, Kodjia or Hogan, hoping that „something will happen“ or the ball sticks long enough up top for those potential goalscorers to advance is a poor plan, giving credit to Bruce if he is indeed capable of thinking that far ahead. You can not absolve someone of the blame if that someone is in control of the situation that is failing the objective. to score more than the opponents in each individual game to amass an amount of points to gain promotion. GH....necessity is the mother of invention. Adomah was never going to continue in that vein of scoring.....He is not a natural front line player.....he is just doing his best......didn't he say once when kodjia was banging them in " I'm not here to score goals"...hmmm If my argument has no foundation then its pointless debating......I don't think it could be any clearer. You have your view on Steve Bruce and I have mine......lets just leave it at that, otherwise we will be boring folk lets agree to disagree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts