VillaCas Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Duck said: Article on MOMS about previous managers all using the same fitness excuse, Houllier, McLeish, Garde... Bruce is no exception. Sorry but it just can't be a fitness issue here. We've replaced the squad with "leaders", we've invested heavily in "fixing problems", but we're still struggling. The problems much worse than this fitness excuse I agree with this...Yesterday I posted that Bruce needs to fix the midfield mess and sort out fitness levels but on reflection I can't really see any reason why our fitness levels should be any different than other teams. Most teams use similar methods and similar technology - to suggest poor fitness plays into the thinking that our lot are just lazy and workshy, but in reality I don't really see that that can be the case. Additionally we have bought nine new players in - were they all slackers and unfit at their previous clubs too? If anything we should be fitter than the majority in the Championship given the fabulous resources and expertise at our disposal. A number of players are slow - In particular Jedinak but for me this is not a fitness issue, more that we have bought a player well past his prime All that said I think that we do have a couple of players who do lack fitness - Richards and Gabby. From my experience playing football (albeit at a lower level than league football), players who in the early part of their career are blessed with extraordinary, natural athletic ability are often not the best trainers - I guess they feel that they don't need to be as they have gifts which make them head and shoulders above their less able colleagues. Over time these natural abilities decline, but by then the players have not got the base or the habit to work hard in training and they fade quickly. For me our problem is that we have a huge mess in midfield. RDM did not buy wisely (Jedinak), did not bother to replace departing midfielders and spent money on loads of forwards without thinking that maybe he couldnt play all six of them together. The fact that the structure in the club could allow this basic and very evident error to occur does not bode well (I can't quite work out the timing of various appointments so maybe we are better structured now) I can't really see that we can do much more than tread water until the next transfer window when we need minimum three and potentially four or five new player - mind-boggling! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 There didnt seem to be any problem with players fitness levels against Newcastle ? We were at our strongest in the last half hour ? And Saturday wasn't something that happened late on, we looked very lethargic right from the off, certainly after the penalty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Richard said: I feel a little bit sorry for Bruce. Not being funny, i never wanted him from the start but the club had two weeks to appoint him, he was free and available and he wanted the club. Two weeks and you are not telling me they hadn't discussed what if scenarios while RDM was still here, they would have been mad not to. Two weeks and they appointed him two days before a match. Agree, but you would expect he would have spent those 2 weeks watching every game weve played in the last 12 months or so (and he may well have) which makes his decision to play Richards all the more, shall I say, perplexing. Surely aside from Richards looking more unhealthy than most fans (saying something) even a cursory brush up on this season and last would show he epitomises much of what is wrong at the Club. Not sure what that selection was about - and of course by picking someone who was as unfit as he is crap we used a Sub up replacing him. And while I agree there is no substitute for getting up close with the players, WE never have that luxury and still have a good idea about them !! Again not saying he could influence much in the time he had..but just puzzling (thats all !! Im not asking for his head on a plate !!). that he saw enough in videos or training to drop Ayew and Westwood yet install Richards and prefer Hutton to Bacuna when he came off ? Ah well, tomorrow night will give a better opportunity to see what he thinks. As one who was alarmed that he didnt manage to get any fire or aggression out of the players on Saturday I will be watching hoping for that as much as anything... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 hours ago, TRO said: Look, its not my job to tell you what to think, because I value your opinion. I disagree on the point he will know before hand, superficially maybe, but it will be another persons view, even IF they gave it to him. He will not know the character of the players for a while yet. No, you can only start, when you start in my view. If we are having this conversation in 10/15 games I will have concerns.....but we must factor in that he may see a personnel problem he can't fix until Jan. !! I thought he was the 'hit the ground running' candidate !! You would give him longer than we gave RDM ? - we really are through the looking glass ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 FWIW I dont think he will need anything like 10 games - his style is the sort that I would expect to impact us in the next couple of games, certainly by mid November. If he hasnt managed it by then we are stuffed ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 17, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted October 17, 2016 Page after page after page of hot air. He's been in the job a few days. At this point you're wasting your breath. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 16 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Page after page after page of hot air. He's been in the job a few days. At this point you're wasting your breath. But with all this hot air one would hope that Aston Villa would lift and soar up the table like a balloon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) 41 minutes ago, terrytini said: Agree, but you would expect he would have spent those 2 weeks watching every game weve played in the last 12 months or so (and he may well have) which makes his decision to play Richards all the more, shall I say, perplexing. that he saw enough in videos or training to drop Ayew I have read a number of comments regarding Richards and his inclusion being used as a stick to beat the manager with. First of all Bacuna, one of the right back options, had been away on International duty and didn't arrive back from Puerto Rico until Thursday so I assume didn't train until Friday. Secondly since the injury to De Laet right back is hardly a position we are blessed in is it. For what it is worth I could find plenty of fault in all three of the current options in that position and there is a gnats knacker between all of them. Given the options available to him the fact that Bruce decided Richards was the best option was hardly a revelation. As was the case with Bacuna, Ayew didn't arrive back from South Africa until Thursday having been on international duty so that would have influenced the managers decision on him not playing. Without even taking the above into consideration regardless of how many videos he has watched it is going to take more than two training sessions for him to make a judgement on the players and come up with some answers to us being so poor. As I, and a number of others have said, lets give him some time please and not rush to judgement. Edited October 17, 2016 by markavfc40 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 minute ago, markavfc40 said: I have read a number of comments regarding Richards and his inclusion being used as a stick to beat the manager with. First of all Bacuna, one of the right back options, had been away on International duty and didn't arrive back from Puerto Rico until Thursday so I assume didn't train until Friday. Secondly since the injury to De Laet right back is hardly a position we are blessed in is it. For what it is worth I could find plenty of fault in all three of the current options in that position and there is a gnats knacker between all of them. Given the options available to him the fact that Bruce decided Richards was the best option was hardly a revelation. As was the case with Bacuna, Ayew didn't arrive back from South Africa until Thursday having been on international duty so that would have influenced the managers decision on him not playing. Without even taking the above into consideration regardless of how many videos he has watched it is going to take more than one training session with the whole squad for him to make a judgement on the players and come up with some answers to us being so poor. As I, and a number of others have said, lets give him some time please and not rush to judgement. Spot on and Richards did ok. Seeing as the only other option was Hutton I think it's a lesser of 2 evils. I fully expect Bacuna and Ayew to start tomorrow. We are 1 point closer to the play offs than we were on Saturday morning and that after our worst performance of the season. We need to win the next couple both for the players confidence and ours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 If he does not produce the goods he will be gone before the January window and we will be looking at a longer plan - again. I have got to the point where I am past worrying about it. I am just hoping that he will turn it around, but if he doesn't..............................we go again. (Big sigh) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 52 minutes ago, terrytini said: !! I thought he was the 'hit the ground running' candidate !! You would give him longer than we gave RDM ? - we really are through the looking glass ! RDM SPENT the 50 mill Terry.....give the bloke a chance with someone else's players. " Hit the ground running" is popular soundbite....but he is a manager, not a magician. I don't know how long these things take... 5 years to destroy .......how long to rectify? How long is a fart or how loud is it. We are all in danger of cutting our nose of to spite our face.......sorry about the pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 46 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Page after page after page of hot air. He's been in the job a few days. At this point you're wasting your breath. Good grief there are some peculiarly sensitive people on here ! And rude ! Why is it hot air ? It's a forum ffs ! What's wrong with airing some views ? I've seen very little that is particularly critical, just observations of where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 20 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I have read a number of comments regarding Richards and his inclusion being used as a stick to beat the manager with. First of all Bacuna, one of the right back options, had been away on International duty and didn't arrive back from Puerto Rico until Thursday so I assume didn't train until Friday. Secondly since the injury to De Laet right back is hardly a position we are blessed in is it. For what it is worth I could find plenty of fault in all three of the current options in that position and there is a gnats knacker between all of them. Given the options available to him the fact that Bruce decided Richards was the best option was hardly a revelation. As was the case with Bacuna, Ayew didn't arrive back from South Africa until Thursday having been on international duty so that would have influenced the managers decision on him not playing. Without even taking the above into consideration regardless of how many videos he has watched it is going to take more than two training sessions for him to make a judgement on the players and come up with some answers to us being so poor. As I, and a number of others have said, lets give him some time please and not rush to judgement. A stick to beat Bruce with ? Where ? Ffs all I, and a few others have said, is that it seemed odd ! I see no rushing to judgmen either. I'm perfectly aware of the squad available, but why on earth should I be happy with the choice of Richards now any more than two weeks ago ! You appear to be suggesting that nobody should comment on the Manager for a certain time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 50 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Page after page after page of hot air. He's been in the job a few days. At this point you're wasting your breath. In view of the years of demise, to expect a manager to come in and make an impact that is bordering on miracle expectations.......We have a danger of imploding if we are not careful. Lets not present Steve Bruce with a bunch of Frenemies....Lets unite behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, TRO said: RDM SPENT the 50 mill Terry.....give the bloke a chance with someone else's players. " Hit the ground running" is popular soundbite....but he is a manager, not a magician. I don't know how long these things take... 5 years to destroy .......how long to rectify? How long is a fart or how loud is it. We are all in danger of cutting our nose of to spite our face.......sorry about the pun. In what way am I not giving him " a chance". I'm quite happy with the choice of Bruce and have defended his appointment. I am quite prepared to accept we are more likely to be in a relegation fight than a promotion one. I a fully aware he needs time, and have argued for Managers to be given time ( RDM, Sherwood, and Lambert) long after some recent Posters in this thread had knives out. I see no need for the calls for protection, in light of a few observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Richard said: in other words professionalism I have seen , and agree to an extent, the argument about fitness. but these are highly paid PROFESSIONAL sportsmen. You would think keeping fit is something they would want to do, would look to do and if they know they aren't fit would be raising hell about. Why have we been in the EU for 50 years when it is arguable we would have done better without it. How many folk REALLY knew how many of those treaties had such a profound effect on us. who knows.....complacency maybe? sorry for drifting off topic.....but trying draw a correlation to our decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, TRO said: In view of the years of demise, to expect a manager to come in and make an impact that is bordering on miracle expectations.......We have a danger of imploding if we are not careful. Lets not present Steve Bruce with a bunch of Frenemies....Lets unite behind him. I am behind him. OK ? I see no contradiction between that and airing some views about Saturdays game. If people need a moratorium on saying g anything about him, any suggestions when it will be OK to ? After the next game, or still verbotten ? The one after that ? Should I ask permission first ? Iften Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, terrytini said: In what way am I not giving him " a chance". I'm quite happy with the choice of Bruce and have defended his appointment. I am quite prepared to accept we are more likely to be in a relegation fight than a promotion one. I a fully aware he needs time, and have argued for Managers to be given time ( RDM, Sherwood, and Lambert) long after some recent Posters in this thread had knives out. I see no need for the calls for protection, in light of a few observations. You said he was the " Hit the ground running candidate" IMO with an air of sarcasm. Sorry if you are a supporter, it didn't seem like it to me. He has presided over one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TRO said: You said he was the " Hit the ground running candidate" IMO with an air of sarcasm. Sorry if you are a supporter, it didn't seem like it to me. He has presided over one game. You should re- read my posts then ! I DO think he was regarded as the " ground running" candidate, but if anything that is a compliment to him ! I'm pretty sure most who preferred him over, for example, a Rowett, did so in part because we needed as close to instant impact as possible ( fwiw, as I said in my next post, I think he WILL get us going quickly). My comment was directed at the suggestion has/ should have 10-15 games before being judged. Edited October 17, 2016 by terrytini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, terrytini said: I am behind him. OK ? I see no contradiction between that and airing some views about Saturdays game. If people need a moratorium on saying g anything about him, any suggestions when it will be OK to ? After the next game, or still verbotten ? The one after that ? Should I ask permission first ? Iften Saturdays game was Tripe Terry.....but you said you thought he was the " hit the ground running candidate" It sounded very much to me like he was getting 5 years of "holding the baby" thats how it come across to me. Lets see what he can do? ......before we blame him 5 years SHITE at the end of every game. Its not a "get out of jail card" ... BUT WE NEED TO BE FAIR TO THE BLOKE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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