Steve Bruce

[praisedmambo]

1 hour ago, Woodytom said:

Yes it is and we are abysmal at it even in the first half. There is a lot more than high levels of fitness required to perform it well. It takes a monumental amount of team cohesion. We're a million miles away from that though. The whole game I watched mccormack grow increasingly frustrated with the likes of kodjia, and tshibola not closing down. He'd close someone down, they'd pass it and mccormack would turn around to see the guy who had received the ball in acres of space. Pointless.

And, given injuries, mccormack has the biggest excuse for not being fit enough. Didn't stop him though.

Fitness for me is just another piss poor excuse to protect the mercenaries that are bleeding this sport dry.

Sorry to follow you around. Last one.

Regarding the above post—fine, and yet you still believe Bruce should have turned the whole thing around in three days? 

And we were much better in the first half. We tailed off big time in the second—there must be something in that. I think RDM thought he could just spend a lot and everything would fall into place. I think we could have had a much better start to the season and blame the fresh misery on the previous manager and his piss poor signings. 

[vreitti]

1 minute ago, Richard said:

But how and why? We have had various systems: manager responsible, committee responsible,  manager and ceo .  we have tried various methods and it isnt rocket science especially when other teams manage to do it so why?

Exactly, and I'd add that recent signings are certainly good enough. We need a manager to instill some belief, commitment and goddam professionalism into them. Also a style of play, that these overpaid primadonna's can understand, would help.

[AvfcRigo82]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think this will be a hard slog for any manager coming in, not just SB.....Because this garden has been neglected for years ( in terms of good habits)and it will take a monumental clean up, well before the new flowers will bloom.

 

  Spot on.     .. Miracle Grow could help speed things up! 

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

The more I think about it it is nothing to do with fitness.

It lays deeper than any fitness structure.

I wonder if we will see Petrov 'involved' somewhere.

I think you are right.....It is many things that all come together to make the whole mess.

"but you can't eat an Elephant in one bite"

I am not suggesting that only one thing can be done at one time.....but things like fitness take time.

If Steve says fitness is a problem who am i to say different...He see's them closely and has years in football at training grounds to make that claim.

That is just one thing he has felt he needs to highlight, he may have already identified many others, but chooses to systematically deal with them.

Ron Saunders never fixed Villa in his reign with a click of the fingers.

Graham Taylor too , brought some some strange signings in( Steve Sims), in order to create balance and stability....Never seemed right at the time, but it was.

I think SB will bring in some that the fans will baulk at, but I think we have too many of the same TYPE....in terms of character, not style.

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

  Spot on.     .. Miracle Grow could help speed things up! 

I'm terrible for resorting to analogies.....but its the best way I feel i can express myself.

Edited October 17, 2016 by TRO

[Nicho]

I think our midfield and full backs are the issue. Therefore fore we need to set up to cover this.

                      Gollini

   Bacuna elphick chester amavi 

                     Tshibola

     Modfielder            Midfielder

Kodija.                             Ayew

                    Gestede

 

whoever goes into midfield needs to have legs, Don't care who this is, Lyden or 18 years olds from the reserves. Stop the full backs coming too far over the half way line and focus on defence. Play into Gestede with Ayew and Kodija supporting and covering opposition full backs when defending

McCormack and Grealish as options on the wing and able to play Kodija or Gestede up top. Hopefully Bruce fixes out soft core first, who those midfielders will be I have no idea.

Jedinak is good enough in possession when receiving a 5 yard pass, anything more and it's a hoof and anything high he keeps in the air.

 

 

[TRO]

45 minutes ago, praisedmambo said:

Sorry to follow you around. Last one.

Regarding the above post—fine, and yet you still believe Bruce should have turned the whole thing around in three days? 

And we were much better in the first half. We tailed off big time in the second—there must be something in that. I think RDM thought he could just spend a lot and everything would fall into place. I think we could have had a much better start to the season and blame the fresh misery on the previous manager and his piss poor signings. 

I think you are right.....and I think some fans fall in to that category too.

I still don't think we have the right personnel balance too.....but that is not discarding all the intangibles that are at work against us.

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by TRO

[Woodytom]

35 minutes ago, praisedmambo said:

Regarding the above post—fine, and yet you still believe Bruce should have turned the whole thing around in three days? 

Where did I say that?

Just said that there should have been more positive signs imo. We could have lost 2-1, played well for 90 mins and I'd be more confident than in what I did see. Nowhere did I say that the whole thing should have been turned around by now. That would be madness.

35 minutes ago, praisedmambo said:

And we were much better in the first half.

We were better than the 2nd half but it wasn't great. 4 attempts at goal is pretty poor. A lot of misplaced passes, kick and rush football. Ridiculous fouls.

It was pretty desperate stuff for the whole 90 bar a brief couple of incidents. Thought wolves looked the better team throughout. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Woodytom

[TRO]

I think some of us was expecting/hoping for a bit of "manager Bounce"

I think our problems have gone a bit away from that now.....Its ok when a bit is wrong at a club and that gives the required lift.

These IMO are fundamental deep rooted flaws.

He will do it, I have no doubt....but not as soon as some of us ( especially those that didn't want him) expect.

I also think Tony Xia is absolutely determined to fix this and will stick with it until he does......He is not a shrinking violet IMV

[bannedfromHandV]

25 minutes ago, Nicho said:

I think our midfield and full backs are the issue. Therefore fore we need to set up to cover this.

                      Gollini

   Bacuna elphick chester amavi 

                     Tshibola

     Modfielder            Midfielder

Kodija.                             Ayew

                    Gestede

 

whoever goes into midfield needs to have legs, Don't care who this is, Lyden or 18 years olds from the reserves. Stop the full backs coming too far over the half way line and focus on defence. Play into Gestede with Ayew and Kodija supporting and covering opposition full backs when defending

McCormack and Grealish as options on the wing and able to play Kodija or Gestede up top. Hopefully Bruce fixes out soft core first, who those midfielders will be I have no idea.

Jedinak is good enough in possession when receiving a 5 yard pass, anything more and it's a hoof and anything high he keeps in the air.

 

 

 

Can only think of one option for the role of modfielder, Paul Weller 

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

 

Can only think of one option for the role of modfielder, Paul Weller 

perhaps we should change our name to "Alice Town"....that should get us out of the "Jam"

Edited October 17, 2016 by TRO

[Woodytom]

33 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think some of us was expecting/hoping for a bit of "manager Bounce"

I think our problems have gone a bit away from that now.....Its ok when a bit is wrong at a club and that gives the required lift.

I disagree TRO. I agree that there are deep lying issues at the club (really have got to question what certain people are doing) however I don't think that means there can't be a new manager bounce. 

I didn't see a single difference. Not a single one. Whether that be looking a bit tighter, a more positive body language, an inclination that they cared. 

I think ppl are making out that were wanting miracles here. Not at all..... just some sort of incline that things could (notice my choice of word..... not 'will'. 'Could') change.

I saw the same sinking ship with nobody seemingly showing any clue as to even attempting to come up with some sort of plan to stay afloat.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Woodytom

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

I disagree TRO. I agree that there are deep lying issues at the club (really have got to question what certain people are doing) however I don't think that means there can't be a new manager bounce. 

I didn't see a single difference. Not a single one. Whether that be looking a bit tighter, a more positive body language, an inclination that they cared. 

I think ppl are making out that were wanting miracles here. Not at all..... just some sort of incline that things could (notice my choice of word..... not 'will'. 'Could')

I saw the same sinking ship with nobody seemingly showing any clue as to even attempting to come up with some sort of plan to stay afloat.

I was hoping for some bounce by the way.....not expecting....I think 48 hrs is too soon.

Woody, not to digress too much....I used to run pubs in my youth.

I would go in to troubleshoot a failing pub.....First of all, I would just watch, observe, monitor, take note and draw up my plan of action, I would get the staff on my side ( you can't boil the ocean) and then I would set to work on the rectification in bite size chunks.

I was successful

you cannot do that in 48 hrs in a pub........never mind a great monstrosity of a football club.

None of us have a crystal ball and i can't sit here and give you guarantee's that SB is right.....but my Gut says he is.

I see Parallels with Graham Taylor/Ron Saunders and Ron Atkinson....I see bits of John Gregory......They all had a much better template than this guy has.

I really don't see a foreign manager sorting this out, I don't think they would have the patience the will or the understanding of the history of the area. SB lives here, he will want to make it work.

Edited October 17, 2016 by TRO

[praisedmambo]

Whether we have a new-manager bounce is not defined within 3 days and one game. Sherwood lost his first two games if I remember, and he certainly seemed to have a little bounce aver 10-12 games. 

 

[TRO]

53 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

I disagree TRO. I agree that there are deep lying issues at the club (really have got to question what certain people are doing) however I don't think that means there can't be a new manager bounce. 

I didn't see a single difference. Not a single one. Whether that be looking a bit tighter, a more positive body language, an inclination that they cared. 

I think ppl are making out that were wanting miracles here. Not at all..... just some sort of incline that things could (notice my choice of word..... not 'will'. 'Could') change.

I saw the same sinking ship with nobody seemingly showing any clue as to even attempting to come up with some sort of plan to stay afloat.

Despite my not always agreeing with you....There are things you say I do agree with.

I think you are a really discerning fan and I can feel your hurt, but don't beat yourself up so much.....We will get this right.

Your comments in my view of what you witness on match day is correct in my view, but then I can be a bit demanding.

I have never been a fan just interested in the match day experience, the pies, the programmes, the cheerleaders, the half time entertainment....not for me.

I just want a team to be proud of, one that plays entertaining football in a manly way ( not show ponies) and is miserly in defence....I just hate conceding, I think it is sloppy and dopey.....thats the full back playing days in me.

I want to see my team artful and sneaky, with devilment and passion, (not timid and tentative)

I have always had a tendency to lean towards the players like Shaun Teale, Andy Gray, Peter Withe Paul McGrath,Steve McMahon, Alex Cropley .....Players who play a mans game and who take no prisoners.

PS Your comments on Steve for me are a bit too soon.

Edited October 17, 2016 by TRO

[Woodytom]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

I see Parallels with Graham Taylor/Ron Saunders and Ron Atkinson....I see bits of John Gregory......They all had a much better template than this guy has.

I really don't see a foreign manager sorting this out, I don't think they would have the patience the will or the understanding of the history of the area. SB lives here, he will want to make it work.

I don't disagree with any of that despite the fact we don't share the same gut instinct.

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Woody, not to digress too much....I used to run pubs in my youth.

I would go in to troubleshoot a failing pub.....First of all, I would just watch, observe, monitor, take note and draw up my plan of action, I would get the staff on my side ( you can't boil the ocean) and then I would set to work on the rectification in bite size chunks.

I like this analogy. I use it sometimes myself as I worked restaurants and bars myself. I didn't manage them but I watched managers come and go......instantly seeing little differences they made (some good, some not so good).

I totally agree with the way you worked...... are you telling me Steve Bruce didn't start thinking about this job long before it got confirmed. I'd be very worried if he didn't.  There's only so much you can do from a outsider looking in position but this time Im sure was used to start planning. Then, in the 48 hours you implement that plan and you should IMO see little differences straight away. Not ground breaking but little things that give off the impression things might improve.

Like I say it could have been just a little bit of organisation being evident. A change in body language. Anything. 

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

I don't disagree with any of that despite the fact we don't share the same gut instinct.

I like this analogy. I use it sometimes myself as I worked restaurants and bars myself. I didn't manage them but I watched managers come and go......instantly seeing little differences they made (some good, some not so good).

I totally agree with the way you worked...... are you telling me Steve Bruce didn't start thinking about this job long before it got confirmed. I'd be very worried if he didn't.  There's only so much you can do from a outsider looking in position but this time Im sure was used to start planning. Then, in the 48 hours you implement that plan and you should IMO see little differences straight away. Not ground breaking but little things that give off the impression things might improve.

Like I say it could have been just a little bit of organisation being evident. A change in body language. Anything. 

Look, its not my job to tell you what to think, because I value your opinion.

I disagree on the point he will know before hand, superficially maybe, but it will be another persons view, even IF they gave it to him. He will not know the character of the players for a while yet.

No, you can only start, when you start in my view.

If we are having this conversation in 10/15 games I will have concerns.....but we must factor in that he may see a personnel problem he can't fix until Jan.

[Woodytom]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

PS Your comments on Steve for me are a bit too soon.

Tbh, ironically, I've warmed more to him as a result of Saturday. That might seem a bit backwards but I'm on his side I really am, even more so when I'm reminded that he's working with footballers who do anything to avoid being like the players you describe above. I find them a total disgrace and I've pulled away from football because they make me angry... and actually it's not worth it.

So, actually I'm not calling Steve Bruce out here. I don't think he's the man for the job but I couldn't tell you who is Tbh. I think we're a bit of a lost cause that is the flag ship of nurturing mercenarous professional footballers.

Ppl may find this hard to believe but whilst being realistic, I speak very fondly of everything Aston villa when I'm promoting us to external fans. Everybody I have spoken to praises the villa fans and I do genuinely gleam with pride when we top the away attendance league etc.

However, (I realise this may go off topic here but hopefully it explains better why I don't have a clue who can address the issues at Aston Villa), the fact that there are 5000 individuals (and I'm sure there is more), willing to pay 42quid to go and watch this shambles at Hillsborough not to mention the 6000 plus who went to Preston, tells me everything that is wrong with English football.

I would never criticise those fans, I respect their choices but we are settling for an absolute shambles. I don't think we're the problem but I think we're key to addressing the problem. Would be a long painful process but atm were just allowing this club to cater for more and more mercenaries.

I pointed the finger at the players many a season ago, and until the comfortable environment they live in at villa changes I don't see anything changing...... and I don't see Steve Bruce being a man who can change it either.

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Tbh, ironically, I've warmed more to him as a result of Saturday. That might seem a bit backwards but I'm on his side I really am, even more so when I'm reminded that he's working with footballers who do anything to avoid being like the players you describe above. I find them a total disgrace and I've pulled away from football because they make me angry... and actually it's not worth it.

So, actually I'm not calling Steve Bruce out here. I don't think he's the man for the job but I couldn't tell you who is Tbh. I think we're a bit of a lost cause that is the flag ship of nurturing mercenarous professional footballers.

Ppl may find this hard to believe but whilst being realistic, I speak very fondly of everything Aston villa when I'm promoting us to external fans. Everybody I have spoken to praises the villa fans and I do genuinely gleam with pride when we top the away attendance league etc.

However, (I realise this may go off topic here but hopefully it explains better why I don't have a clue who can address the issues at Aston Villa), the fact that there are 5000 individuals (and I'm sure there is more), willing to pay 42quid to go and watch this shambles at Hillsborough not to mention the 6000 plus who went to Preston, tells me everything that is wrong with English football.

I would never criticise those fans, I respect their choices but we are settling for an absolute shambles. I don't think we're the problem but I think we're key to addressing the problem. Would be a long painful process but atm were just allowing this club to cater for more and more mercenaries.

I pointed the finger at the players many a season ago, and until the comfortable environment they live in at villa changes I don't see anything changing...... and I don't see Steve Bruce being a man who can change it either.

I'm like you I have too been affected by the lack of passion....but hey like you, I love this club. I can't go as much as I used to but I still do go.

The team is what it is.....but they can never take away the History and the great days, The full houses and the characters we have had playing for us that have brought us endless joy.....thats what makes this club Great.....(We hear the banter), but it will always be with us.

You don't have to tell me that whilst he was not your choice, you do want him to succeed and that is all we can ask....He needs support and he needs to know we are with him....That will make him stronger in his belief.

The fans for me are beyond belief and those away fans I can only marvel at.....We all have different ways of expressing our emotions, some moan at every kick some sit there stum intimating they are happy.....The common denominator is despite our emotional persuasions we all Love Aston Villa.....and when those goals go in for us, we are ALL in unison.....but overall the fanbase is a massive asset.

Every person on this site, despite the way they express themselves is desperate for us to turn the corner....and we will.

It will not be a 5 minute job....But Steve Bruce will turn this around ,I am absolutely sure.....where he will take us then I have no idea.....but that could be new Territory for him because my hunch is when we do go up ( next year in my view) Tony will find unprecedented funds for SB ... we just have to ensure we spend it wisely/prudently

Edited October 17, 2016 by TRO

[Richard]

I feel a little bit sorry for Bruce.  Not being funny,  i never wanted him from the start but the club had two weeks to appoint him,  he was free and available and he wanted the club. Two weeks and you are not telling me they hadn't discussed what if scenarios while RDM was still here, they would have been mad not to.

Two weeks and they appointed him two days before a match.