Steve Bruce

[TRO]

5 hours ago, VillaCas said:

 We had choices in the style of manager we appointed - Bruce's big selling point was that he could make an instant(-ish) impact, other options included appointing a manager who might take a little longer but may build something that would be longer lasting perhaps.

My post was in the main a response to a feeling growing already that Bruce will need lots of time and patience and that this could be a much longer job. My worry all along is that if Bruce needs to spend lots of money ( we will soon burn through the parachute payments) we might only get one chance to do so. I don't see Bruce as the best person to spend this money and pointed to the Hull squad as giving us some insight into his transfer abilities 

Yes clearly teams need strengthening but the fact that they have shipped 17 in the last 4 must say something

In truth, it was a minor point and pretty much a throwaway comment, but it supports my view that Bruce is not best equipped to build something long term

I'd bet a pound to a penny that had Hull been pulling up trees in the Prem then his advocates would be pointing to that as a positive sign  

I wouldn't have appointed Bruce, but now he is here I clearly want him to succeed. He has pretty much a free ride until January transfer window comes in my opinion.

I'm very worried about his transfer abilities though and would like to think that he doesn't have complete free rein in that respect 

 

 

There is time......and there is time.

48 hrs is hardly enough time to find the toilets at BMH.

I think we need to be a bit realistic on this.....some of our problems appear to be of an intangible nature, which its anyones guess how long that takes.

On the new players....I was rather hoping we had bought well, but we still look unbalanced as a side and I am unsure that we have bought the right types.

where is our steve mcmahon, gareth Barry or a Robbie Savage.

where is our midfielder who drives the opposition nuts.

not sure the 2 centre halves are commanding enough....right through the spine it does not fill me with confidence.

lets hope brucey can work a miracle.

Edited October 16, 2016 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, vreitti said:

It's ridiculous to suggest we'd have to wait until the January transfer window before we're allowed to fully judge SB. Everyone in favor of the appointment seemed fairly certain he'd be able to make an instant impact. He can't be held accountable for yesterday obviously, given he's had no time with the squad yet, but surely we can expect a proper impact in the coming weeks? Otherwise we might as well stuck with RDM. 

Also I refuse to accept we don't have enough quality. Our summer dealings where decent enough, best we've seen in years imho, even though we seem a little light in midfield. Jedinak obviously needs to up his game, and I fully expect him to do so, and Tish needs to stay free from any more injuries. I don't rate Gardner or Westy all that much, but expect them to at least be able to compete on this level.

Sadly the mental side seems to be our biggest issue atm, as many have pointed out, and if SB can't sort this bit out instantly, he really doesn't cut the mustard, short term or otherwise.

We can judge the man anytime we like, we seemed to have done that before he arrived.

its whether that judgment is fair or accurate, is more the question.

i don't quite understand the logic of saying we have enough quality and in the next breathe, systematically dismantling the midfield.....that suggests to me we haven't got enough quality.

I do actually think midfield is a major issue.....which arguably can't be remedied until Jan.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, VillaCas said:

Ffs I wasn't a fan of Bruce's appointment but it's far from ridiculous to reserve final judgement until he has had a chance to bring his own players in!

Clearly I'd expect some lift in performance before then but to be fair to the bloke I don't see what quick solutions to a gaping hole in Midfield and complete lack of fitness are available overnight

Not even his severest critic could surely make a full judgment on his abilities until January at least

 

Well said VC....sanity prevails.

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

48 hrs is hardly enough time to find the toilets at BMH.

I wonder if you have hit on one of the reasons for our players' lacklustre performance?

[Demitri_C]

7 hours ago, VillaCas said:

Yes maybe that's true. I make the point only because various posters had previously said that he left a strong squad behind at Hull as evidence of his team-building abilities, they've now shipped 17 in the last four games so not that strong - I take your point about difficulties taking a squad up, but there are differences between needing further depth and being totally out of their class. 

The implication is that if he should get us up yet another serious rebuild would be required to remain competitive. I would contrast that with the smoother progression someone like Howe has made with Bournemouth. I'm not intending to be over critical of Bruce for this, just that I don't see him as a slow build type of guy - his promoters have been touting him as able to make a quick impact. 

I have sympathies with him given the midfield mess but equally come February, after the window, we need to see dramatic improvements 

Well that's what your post sounded like not trying anything. But thanks for elaborating on your point. 

With your point his do you know Bruce wouldn't you have made his own signings there or choose different players? You don't so I don't agree with the first paragraph. 

I understand your point second paragraph it's not something I share but I see why you feel that way. 

I agree with your final paragraph though you will be happy to hear

[Demitri_C]

4 hours ago, terrytini said:

People will scoff but you are dead on with those suggestions !

That will help at villa park but what about all the away games? They would collapse after 10 minutes!

[Woodytom]

Im not buying any excuse for yet another absolutely dour performance on the back of a new manager. Not even an ounce of lift in the performance.

Your just looking for that inclination that maybe, just maybe there is hope. A good first half or at least a moment in the match where we showed an extra bit of fight. 

But no. It was **** woeful.

48 hours in charge and a lack of fitness (which I don't really buy), are not excuses for us to go a whole half in a local derby without an attempt at goal. Just An attempt?? Never mind a shot on target. 

[AvfcRigo82]

47 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Im not buying any excuse for yet another absolutely dour performance on the back of a new manager. Not even an ounce of lift in the performance.

Your just looking for that inclination that maybe, just maybe there is hope. A good first half or at least a moment in the match where we showed an extra bit of fight. 

But no. It was **** woeful.

48 hours in charge and a lack of fitness (which I don't really buy), are not excuses for us to go a whole half in a local derby without an attempt at goal. Just An attempt?? Never mind a shot on target. 

Woody, I have followed football for a long time and I totally get your stance on the appointment.

Now first and foremost everyone and their brother on here knows of my total displeasure along with a few other folk  to the appointment of our current manager too.

Now as much for my protestation of the appointment, not even Pep Guardiola would have mustered a better performance yesterday with the same group.

We had a very good first half and a massive improvement and we could have actually had Wolves buried by half time had we not missed those few chances.

But again we are witnessing the same problem after 60/70 minutes.. we tire quickly and it is like a whole different team to that of the first half. The manager is right, there is a problem, and a big one at that in which I am in agreement will not just be shifted by any manager in a job for 48hrs and 90 minutes of football.

I will be slightly lenient in letting him imbed his philosophy into the team whilst at the same time expect to see improvement in this time on the upwards curve.

Gritted teeth I know but even I am being realistic.  Have faith my friend... He knows what lies ahead if he does not start delivering.

He knew he had his work cut out and he is being put to the sword for you, let's just not put the sword in the guy just yet... Let's at least wait till November is here! 

 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Woody, I have followed football for a long time and I totally get your stance on the appointment.

Now first and foremost everyone and their brother on here knows of my total displeasure along with a few other folk  to the appointment of our current manager too.

Now as much for my protestation of the appointment, not even Pep Guardiola would have mustered a better performance yesterday with the same group.

We had a very good first half and a massive improvement and we could have actually had Wolves buried by half time had we not missed those few chances.

But again we are witnessing the same problem after 60/70 minutes.. we tire quickly and it is like a whole different team to that of the first half. The manager is right, there is a problem, and a big one at that in which I am in agreement will not just be shifted by any manager in a job for 48hrs and 90 minutes of football.

I will be slightly lenient in letting him imbed his philosophy into the team whilst at the same time expect to see improvement in this time on the upwards curve.

Gritted teeth I know but even I am being realistic.  Have faith my friend... He knows what lies ahead if he does not start delivering.

He knew he had his work cut out and he is being put to the sword for you, let's just not put the sword in the guy just yet... Let's at least wait till November is here! 

 

And that is the truism that exists.

when you get blatant poor decision making by Kodjia not passing to McCormack that lifts the opposition....The manager can't play for them, he can only point it out after.

Edited October 16, 2016 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Woodytom said:

Im not buying any excuse for yet another absolutely dour performance on the back of a new manager. Not even an ounce of lift in the performance.

Your just looking for that inclination that maybe, just maybe there is hope. A good first half or at least a moment in the match where we showed an extra bit of fight. 

But no. It was **** woeful.

48 hours in charge and a lack of fitness (which I don't really buy), are not excuses for us to go a whole half in a local derby without an attempt at goal. Just An attempt?? Never mind a shot on target. 

I can feel the hurt and frustration and I'm feeling it too fwiw

I have been through times when I know its lack of investment (HDE years)that is the problem....this isn't.....its damn worse.

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by TRO

[Michael118]

5 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Woody, I have followed football for a long time and I totally get your stance on the appointment.

Now first and foremost everyone and their brother on here knows of my total displeasure along with a few other folk  to the appointment of our current manager too.

Now as much for my protestation of the appointment, not even Pep Guardiola would have mustered a better performance yesterday with the same group.

We had a very good first half and a massive improvement and we could have actually had Wolves buried by half time had we not missed those few chances.

But again we are witnessing the same problem after 60/70 minutes.. we tire quickly and it is like a whole different team to that of the first half. The manager is right, there is a problem, and a big one at that in which I am in agreement will not just be shifted by any manager in a job for 48hrs and 90 minutes of football.

I will be slightly lenient in letting him imbed his philosophy into the team whilst at the same time expect to see improvement in this time on the upwards curve.

Gritted teeth I know but even I am being realistic.  Have faith my friend... He knows what lies ahead if he does not start delivering.

He knew he had his work cut out and he is being put to the sword for you, let's just not put the sword in the guy just yet... Let's at least wait till November is here! 

 

THE PROBLEM IS PSYCHOLOGICAL/MOTIVATIONAL. 

If we had a manager like Guus Hiddink in charge we would not have collapsed like we did, we would be praising an improved performance and highlighting the difference a quality manager makes.

Lack of fitness is another cop out and only gives me further reason to doubt Bruce knows what is going on. I'm not surprised though because he isn't a manager who has that kind of influence and it's the main reason I didn't want him appointed!

Edited October 17, 2016 by Michael118

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Michael118 said:

THE PROBLEM IS PSYCHOLOGICAL/MOTIVATIONAL. 

If we had a manager like Guus Hiddink in charge we would not have collapsed like we did, we would be praising an improved performance and highlighting the difference a quality manager makes.

Lack of fitness is another cop out and only gives me further reason to doubt Bruce knows what is going on. I'm not surprised though because he isn't a manager who has that kind of influence and it's the main reason I didn't want him appointed!

How would hiddink have improved the fitness in 48hours? No manager can it will take time and avfcrigo82 is spot on

Edited October 17, 2016 by Demitri_C

[villan_007]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

How would hiddink have improved the fitness in 48hours? No manager can it will take time and avfcrigo82 is spot on

With his mind - it's all about the spirituality man

[Hopp]

Excuse me if I laugh but my god... The guys been here a couple of days and the knives are out already.

[RimmyJimmer]

Hiddink??!!!!!  Do fans really believe we could get hiddink? We're rubbish and we're in the championship.

 

[Mjvilla]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

How would hiddink have improved the fitness in 48hours? No manager can it will take time and avfcrigo82 is spot on

Fitness is a cop out don't you know... The fact that it is clearly visible after an hour that they are blowing out their arse means nothing to michael118

[Woodytom]

7 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Woody, I have followed football for a long time and I totally get your stance on the appointment.

Now first and foremost everyone and their brother on here knows of my total displeasure along with a few other folk  to the appointment of our current manager too.

Now as much for my protestation of the appointment, not even Pep Guardiola would have mustered a better performance yesterday with the same group.

We had a very good first half and a massive improvement and we could have actually had Wolves buried by half time had we not missed those few chances.

But again we are witnessing the same problem after 60/70 minutes.. we tire quickly and it is like a whole different team to that of the first half. The manager is right, there is a problem, and a big one at that in which I am in agreement will not just be shifted by any manager in a job for 48hrs and 90 minutes of football.

I will be slightly lenient in letting him imbed his philosophy into the team whilst at the same time expect to see improvement in this time on the upwards curve.

Gritted teeth I know but even I am being realistic.  Have faith my friend... He knows what lies ahead if he does not start delivering.

He knew he had his work cut out and he is being put to the sword for you, let's just not put the sword in the guy just yet... Let's at least wait till November is here! 

 

I see your point, and to some extent agree however, my post wasn't solely aimed at Steve Bruce and my displeasure in his appointment. (I realise that this is the Steve Bruce thread)

First and foremost, the manager (no matter who it is) has my backing, more than any professional footballer of this generation. It's not news that I don't rate them, but I almost despise them (not in a personal way - but as a collective).

I don't believe to any extent that the performance displayed a group of people buzzing about a new era. The body language remained poor, the energy and effort remained poor and the attitude remained poor. 

Together, we have a group of individuals once again, choosing to underperform imo, because they can.

And I find it an utter disgrace that they have that attitude, we allow them to have that attitude and that there seems to be no manager who can change that attitude.

I don't know why (because I say over and over again - don't ignore what is staring you in the face) but I watched on Saturday in sheer disbelief. I genuinely couldn't believe that that was a team under new leadership and still relatively speaking under new ownership.

All but 3 players who started were playing what, their 10/12th game max for us. Where was the motivation to impress their new club. All but too easy they have settled in to the 'not giving a shit' attitude at Aston villa. 

Steve Bruce actually could be a good appointment in my eyes now, because as it stands, avoiding relegation must be our first and foremost goal.... how anybody can deny that I'm not sure. I assume it's the same people who refused to be realistic about previous seasons, calling any relegation thread ridiculous.

I refer back to it.... don't ignore what is staring you in the face. 1 win from 12 games is staring pretty hard right now.

[Woodytom]

Don't buy the fitness issue either?

Perform the basic principles of football........ I.E. keep the **** ball. And you'll spend less time running round like dicks.

[Michael118]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

How would hiddink have improved the fitness in 48hours? No manager can it will take time and avfcrigo82 is spot on

Hiddink wouldn't have improved the fitness within 48 hours but his presence would have changed the dynamics within the squad and am sure it would have resulted in a better performance from the players than what they showed under Bruce.

[Demitri_C]

2 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

Hiddink wouldn't have improved the fitness within 48 hours but his presence would have changed the dynamics within the squad and am sure it would have resulted in a better performance from the players than what they showed under Bruce.

i cannot disagree more with you.What would his presence do if the team are knackered after 60 minutes wouldnt have done anything? Also lets not forget poor brucie couldnt do the subs he wanted as we had two injuries. I think ayew would have made a huge difference had he come on, its not about the maanger or tactics for me fitness was the big problem vs wolves.