AntrimBlack Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Why would we aim for top ten, or use it as a bench mark. Totally unimportant - I don't care. I want to see performances that indicate that we have a chance of going up next season. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: Why would we aim for top ten, or use it as a bench mark. Totally unimportant - I don't care. I want to see performances that indicate that we have a chance of going up next season. Because in order for us to finish top ten now we'll need to go on a pretty solid run in the remaining games, it gives the team an aim other than simply winning. Giving people targets typically works well from a psychological perspective, it's why Sales people are heavily targeted (and typically, rewarded), it's really not rocket science. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: And I hope you had to Google those lines and didn't just know them off pat!!?? You old rascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, TRO said: I would dump the league placing and concentrate on the form table. That for me is a much better barometer of where we are going and what progress is being made. The league table takes in RDM's stewardship and that is not really that helpful to us now. IMO there has been too much mess this season to make anything plausible out of a League table placing. Well the league table is the form table over 46 games, but I guess you mean since Bruce arrived? Or since he got to sign his own players? Or from now? Or over the final 6 games? Or over whatever stretch is most flattering to Bruce? Edited March 10, 2017 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Because in order for us to finish top ten now we'll need to go on a pretty solid run in the remaining games, it gives the team an aim other than simply winning. Giving people targets typically works well from a psychological perspective, it's why Sales people are heavily targeted (and typically, rewarded), it's really not rocket science. Glad you pointed that out. Gee, I would never have thought of that. I am not talking about galvanising the players. Promotion was the target for the players this season - look how that went. I am talking about posters using top ten as a yardstick for the retention or otherwise of Bruce. If we scrape wins to get us to top ten, but the performances are poor, it means nothing in my opinion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: Glad you pointed that out. Gee, I would never have thought of that. I am not talking about galvanising the players. Promotion was the target for the players this season - look how that went. I am talking about posters using top ten as a yardstick for the retention or otherwise of Bruce. If we scrape wins to get us to top ten, but the performances are poor, it means nothing in my opinion. Winning is more important than performance for me - taking over in 22nd and finishing top 10 would be acceptable this season - of course we'd all like to be higher but the fact we have done a large part of our team strengthening in January means we should have the nucleus of a settled team come August . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 18 minutes ago, Eastie said: Winning is more important than performance for me - taking over in 22nd and finishing top 10 would be acceptable this season - of course we'd all like to be higher but the fact we have done a large part of our team strengthening in January means we should have the nucleus of a settled team come August . Whilst I agree that winning is and always will be the most important factor, the manner of the victories can't be totally ignored. If we have a game plan, even if we don't like the style, that is producing good results then we're happy. However if we're getting results that seem to be more by luck than judgement, whilst we may still be happy in the short term the luck may eventually dry up. Obviously there is a fair dollop of subjectivity in assessing what is lucky and what is a deliberate game plan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 22 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Obviously there is a fair dollop of subjectivity in assessing what is lucky and what is a deliberate game plan. Thing is, to some the subjective element is not at all obvious. For them it's dogma all the way and things are either absolutely right or absolutely wrong. Steve Bruce or Wagner's Third. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Eastie said: Winning is more important than performance for me - taking over in 22nd and finishing top 10 would be acceptable this season - of course we'd all like to be higher but the fact we have done a large part of our team strengthening in January means we should have the nucleus of a settled team come August . We will have to disagree, Eastie. I really do think the performances are more important than the final table position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 minute ago, AntrimBlack said: We will have to disagree, Eastie. I really do think the performances are more important than the final table position. Preferably they will go hand in hand and both improve - but results breed confidence and with confidence performances should improve. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 2 hours ago, sne said: Well the league table is the form table over 46 games, but I guess you mean since Bruce arrived? Or since he got to sign his own players? Or from now? Or over the final 6 games? Or over whatever stretch is most flattering to Bruce? Or just the games he was responsible for.......you guess right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, TRO said: Or just the games he was responsible for.......you guess right. Nah surely Bruce is responsible for the whole season. In fact, let's throw last season in as well, because why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 minute ago, kurtsimonw said: Nah surely Bruce is responsible for the whole season. In fact, let's throw last season in as well, because why not? Haha you tinker..... and Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, TRO said: Or just the games he was responsible for.......you guess right. Fair enough, what would be acceptable? Top 10, 6, 2, 26? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA_Villa Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 How much slack and time do we have to give this guy? Just remember a few weeks ago we were being beaten by Forest, Brentford, plus Ipswich and Barnsley at home, and all this after we have spent the most money in the division. We weren't losing to Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea. We were playing crap and losing to crappier teams. When was the last time you sat back in your chair and said well done Steve, they played great football and we deserved the win today? I don't think I've said it once since he's been here. We've either been crap, scraped a win or draw, or managed to pull together a win against one of the bottom six teams. Can someone please explain why we have suddenly settled for mediocrity, and where you are seeing the signs that this will get any better any time soon? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, sne said: Fair enough, what would be acceptable? Top 10, 6, 2, 26? I don't really know. its just me , I am not taking too much notice of the league position this season as there has been too much disruption.....its just difficult to get a defined judgment from it......We can all make personal stabs at it to promote our arguments, but what use is that. We want a successful team......not win arguments. We are in transition,get this season out of the way and I think, we can judge him fairly. i just think it would be quite slick to finish the season showing the strength that these players have and display the teamwork essential for promotion. Win the last 6 games would be good Edited March 10, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post terrytini Posted March 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2017 Nonsensical. What ? 10th he stays, 11th he goes ? Or 8th he stays but 13th he goes ? Meaningless. What about if only goal difference separates us one way or the other ? I dearly hope those running the Club are going to judge him on a combination of results, performances, style, tactics, team spirit, and the general upward or downward direction of those hard to measure (but not impossible to measure) 'massive job' ingredients. I would hope supporters judge him on that too. Not on where we finish, not on three good results, or three bad ones. or three average ones against hard opponents etc etc. Not on how many times in the PAST he's got Clubs up, nor how many times he's got them relegated. Not because "we have changed a lot" or "we need stability". We've got now until the end of the season to do what fans at every other Club will do, judge the guy on the ingredients that make up a good, or bad, job. I don't know precisely where that demarcation comes, it will be different for me, different for TRO, different for Blandy etc, and, crucially, different for the Owner..........but I do hope it is that set of ingredients that is used. I would hate to see us keep him just because we finish 10th, or whatever, and equally hate to see him go just because we don't. He is on a 2 month trial, and every aspect should be under the microscope, for better or worse. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I don't really know. its just me , I am not taking too much notice of the league position this season as there has been too much disruption.....its just difficult to get a defined judgment from it......We can all make personal stabs at it to promote our arguments, but what use is that. We want a successful team......not win arguments. We are in transition,get this season out of the way and I think, we can judge him fairly. i just think it would be quite slick to finish the season showing the strength that these players have and display the teamwork essential for promotion. Win the last 6 games would be good I get what you're saying, this season has been a clusterf**k so it is hard to judge either way. Can only really go by gut feeling and there is where you and I differ, but we're just speculating either way. Would of course be great to win the last 6 games, but even then you can't really judge because a lot of teams will have switched off while others will be fighting for their lives, or play off spots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, USA_Villa said: How much slack and time do we have to give this guy? Just remember a few weeks ago we were being beaten by Forest, Brentford, plus Ipswich and Barnsley at home, and all this after we have spent the most money in the division. We weren't losing to Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea. We were playing crap and losing to crappier teams. When was the last time you sat back in your chair and said well done Steve, they played great football and we deserved the win today? I don't think I've said it once since he's been here. We've either been crap, scraped a win or draw, or managed to pull together a win against one of the bottom six teams. Can someone please explain why we have suddenly settled for mediocrity, and where you are seeing the signs that this will get any better any time soon? There has been a number of posters in previous posts who have very eloquently explained the answer to your question. you either accept that it takes a manager some time to clear up the mess of the last 7 years or you don't......in which case you will get posters posting similar posts until he has gone......or the football reaches the standard you expect and we are all happy. the only difference is some of us knew it was coming. UTV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, terrytini said: Nonsensical. What ? 10th he stays, 11th he goes ? Or 8th he stays but 13th he goes ? Meaningless. What about if only goal difference separates us one way or the other ? I dearly hope those running the Club are going to judge him on a combination of results, performances, style, tactics, team spirit, and the general upward or downward direction of those hard to measure (but not impossible to measure) 'massive job' ingredients. I would hope supporters judge him on that too. Not on where we finish, not on three good results, or three bad ones. or three average ones against hard opponents etc etc. Not on how many times in the PAST he's got Clubs up, nor how many times he's got them relegated. Not because "we have changed a lot" or "we need stability". We've got now until the end of the season to do what fans at every other Club will do, judge the guy on the ingredients that make up a good, or bad, job. I don't know precisely where that demarcation comes, it will be different for me, different for TRO, different for Blandy etc, and, crucially, different for the Owner..........but I do hope it is that set of ingredients that is used. I would hate to see us keep him just because we finish 10th, or whatever, and equally hate to see him go just because we don't. He is on a 2 month trial, and every aspect should be under the microscope, for better or worse. I agree with that Terry.....just could'nt be bothered to go in to such detail again, but well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts