Steve Bruce

[bannedfromHandV]

36 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Yup.

I knew we would fall short. After that 7 game winning run I tried to convince myself we turned a corner but deep down I knew.

Were you surprised at our performance in the final? I wasn't. That's how we played in 90% of games against the top 10. Wolves and Cardiff at home are the only games against the top teams I can remember where we didn't play for a draw, and even those were followed by losses iirc. I knew if we didn't get promoted automatically we were as good as done. And I knew we didn't have the consistency to get top 2. 

I was very surprised, not by the tactics or the perceived faults otherwise of the Manager but by how tame and scared the players looked, to a man.

I watched John Terry show levels of carelessness and indecisiveness that hadn't been displayed all season long - for me, the 11 players on the pitch lost that final, not the Manager and when I saw JT doing that I knew we were unlikely to win.

 

Surely you can accept, that football being football, on another day we'd have won that match, totally hypothetical and pie-in-the-sky now but where would that have left you, if you'd 'known' all along we wouldn't be promoted but then had been?

 

And with all due respect chief, you didn't 'know' anything, it was your opinion (irrespective of how well researched or formed it may have been), so you didn't know we would not great promoted, you just believed it, then when we didn't get that promotion your opinion became validated - just saying.

[Keyblade]

31 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I was very surprised, not by the tactics or the perceived faults otherwise of the Manager but by how tame and scared the players looked, to a man.

I watched John Terry show levels of carelessness and indecisiveness that hadn't been displayed all season long - for me, the 11 players on the pitch lost that final, not the Manager and when I saw JT doing that I knew we were unlikely to win.

 

Surely you can accept, that football being football, on another day we'd have won that match, totally hypothetical and pie-in-the-sky now but where would that have left you, if you'd 'known' all along we wouldn't be promoted but then had been?

 

And with all due respect chief, you didn't 'know' anything, it was your opinion (irrespective of how well researched or formed it may have been), so you didn't know we would not great promoted, you just believed it, then when we didn't get that promotion your opinion became validated - just saying.

I'm obviously not saying I'm Nostradamus or anything, 'I knew' doesn't literally mean I knew. I'm saying I was pretty confident in my prediction is all. Of course we could have won that playoff final, football being football. There was 1 goal in it after all. But the chances of it happening was pretty low considering how we approached those kinds of games as it so proved. We could have played for another 3 hours and we wouldn't have won that game. That was down to the tactics. We didn't even try to go for it after going a goal down which said it all. And that's exactly what I thought would happen.

[Rugeley Villa]

Will he get a decent reception from the travelling villa faithful next month? 

[villa89]

18 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Will he get a decent reception from the travelling villa faithful next month? 

We're going to need more cabbages. 

[bannedfromHandV]

26 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I'm obviously not saying I'm Nostradamus or anything, 'I knew' doesn't literally mean I knew. I'm saying I was pretty confident in my prediction is all. Of course we could have won that playoff final, football being football. There was 1 goal in it after all. But the chances of it happening was pretty low considering how we approached those kinds of games as it so proved. We could have played for another 3 hours and we wouldn't have won that game. That was down to the tactics. We didn't even try to go for it after going a goal down which said it all. And that's exactly what I thought would happen.

Alright, we'll have to agree to disagree then, as I've said, the players lost that final as far as I'm concerned, Bruce as Manager obviously takes a share in the spoils, I'm sure there are things he'd have done differently both trivial and significant. 

We played our strongest available XI, the same players that had scored great goals, or just lots of them didn't do so on that day, nor came close, we froze and the game bypassed us, I've never known a 90 minutes to end so quickly though the plethora of beers I'd had wouldn't have helped. 

Again, I end up looking like someone with a major soft spot for Steve Bruce, which I get is because I post and have posted often in defence of him but its really not the case, I just think he's been given an overly hard time on here (at times) and try to add some form of balance to the discussion. 

He totally had to go when he went, you could argue reasonably a few weeks prior, so I'm not pining for him to be back here, although the overall situation is not helped by us doing shit and though it has no real relevance - he's doing pretty well with an inferior club/team right now, possibly new Manager bounce. 

It all goes back to my fundamental concern, and a concern that's been in my mind for a number of years now stretching back way beyond Bruce, that something is essentially wrong with Villa at the moment, we've changed everything I think, aside from club colours and stadium, and we're still shit or at least, underperforming. 

I worry that we haven't bottomed out yet and that it's what's needed in the long term, I worry that next season we'll see a team full of scared young players crumbling under the weight of expectation. I worry. 

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Alright, we'll have to agree to disagree then, as I've said, the players lost that final as far as I'm concerned, Bruce as Manager obviously takes a share in the spoils, I'm sure there are things he'd have done differently both trivial and significant. 

We played our strongest available XI, the same players that had scored great goals, or just lots of them didn't do so on that day, nor came close, we froze and the game bypassed us, I've never known a 90 minutes to end so quickly though the plethora of beers I'd had wouldn't have helped. 

Again, I end up looking like someone with a major soft spot for Steve Bruce, which I get is because I post and have posted often in defence of him but its really not the case, I just think he's been given an overly hard time on here (at times) and try to add some form of balance to the discussion. 

He set us up like some minnow going to Barcelona or Real Madrid. We never laid a glove on Fulham. 

He did same away to Fulham and Wolves in the league too

[Genie]

The play off final first half was a bizarre game off football from our point of view. I bet Fulham couldn’t believe their luck. I thought we were ok second half and had a go but it might of been partly down to Fulham sitting back on their lead.

[Genie]

The play off final first half was a bizarre game off football from our point of view. I bet Fulham couldn’t believe their luck. I thought we were ok second half and had a go but it might of been partly down to Fulham sitting back on their lead.

[Wainy316]

12 hours ago, Zatman said:

He set us up like some minnow going to Barcelona or Real Madrid. We never laid a glove on Fulham. 

He did same away to Fulham and Wolves in the league too

Yep annoying considering we beat all three of the teams that finished above us at home.

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Yep annoying considering we beat all three of the teams that finished above us at home.

 

12 hours ago, Zatman said:

He set us up like some minnow going to Barcelona or Real Madrid. We never laid a glove on Fulham. 

He did same away to Fulham and Wolves in the league too

Its Not ALWAYS a direct result of the manager of any team setting up that way....sometimes its the players failing to win their individual battles and default to defence mode or fail to raise their energy levels to play with intensity, so sit back.

It not always the way a manager sets the team up.

I have seen in many games Steve Bruce and Dean Smith alike.....waving them forward.

I am not saying SB does not have a tendency to want to play in a defensive mode....just saying its not always the case of the way we are set up, bit of both.

Edited February 26, 2019 by TRO

[sne]

When "Batten down the hatches" is the key word of your philosophy it's bound to have implications on how your team performs on big occasions. 

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, sne said:

When "Batten down the hatches" is the key word of your philosophy it's bound to have implications on how your team performs on big occasions. 

Of Course....and I am not arguing with that, same with Pulis.....They haven't got reputations that precede them for nothing.

I am merely saying on occasions, its not the set up....Steve Bruce came out and said he couldn't understand the way we played in the first half at Wembley, that indicates to me along with the second half display, they were not playing directly to orders.....It could equally be argued Fulham went in to defensive mode in the second half and had we scored, they could of come under fire from their fans for doing so.

My point is....Its not always a direct instruction from the manager that formulates a game....we would all like to think it is, but I think we give them too much credit for the control we think they have over proceedings.....you only have to look at their faces during a game to know.

I am pretty sure the Chelsea Goalkeeper, was not playing to orders, either....just kidding with that bizarre one.

Edited February 26, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, sne said:

When "Batten down the hatches" is the key word of your philosophy it's bound to have implications on how your team performs on big occasions. 

I think 24 wins in a season....challenges that....but i don't doubt he has done that at times.

sure, it was smash and grab and that style doesn't always sit well with the crowd....O'Neill had a similar style.

Edited February 26, 2019 by TRO

[sne]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Of Course....and I am not arguing with that, same with Pulis.....They haven't got reputations that precede them for nothing.

I am merely saying on occasions, its not the set up....Steve Bruce came out and said he couldn't understand the way we played in the first half at Wembley, that indicates to me along with the second half display, they were not playing directly to orders.....It could equally be argued Fulham went in to defensive mode in the second half and had we scored, they could of come under fire from their fans for doing so.

My point is....Its not always a direct instruction from the manager that formulates a game....we would all like to think it is, but I think we give them too much credit for the control we think they have over proceedings.....you only have to look at their faces during a game to know.

I am pretty sure the Chelsea Goalkeeper, was not playing to orders, either....just kidding with that bizarre one.

Yeah, sorry wasn't responding to your post, they just happened to come in close proximation.

Instructions aside, I think the manager sets an overall tone in and around the team. Be it gung-ho or super cautious.

Without knowing what was said behind closed doors to the players, the outward tone from Bruce in interviews and such it was often playing down our chances, focusing on things that went against us, individual errors, no millions to spend, injuries and how difficult everything was.

He was in an incredibly privileged position here but he never seemed to acknowledge this. The focus was on what he didn't have rather than the other way round. I get the feeling this affected the player in a bad way on the pitch.

[sne]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think 24 wins in a season....challenges that....but i don't doubt he has done that at times.

sure, it was smash and grab and that style doesn't always sit well with the crowd....O'Neill had a similar style.

24 out of 46 certainly isn't bad.

It's not promotion form, but it will easily get you into the play off any given season.

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, sne said:

Yeah, sorry wasn't responding to your post, they just happened to come in close proximation.

Instructions aside, I think the manager sets an overall tone in and around the team. Be it gung-ho or super cautious.

Without knowing what was said behind closed doors to the players, the outward tone from Bruce in interviews and such it was often playing down our chances, focusing on things that went against us, individual errors, no millions to spend, injuries and how difficult everything was.

He was in an incredibly privileged position here but he never seemed to acknowledge this. The focus was on what he didn't have rather than the other way round. I get the feeling this affected the player in a bad way on the pitch.

equally, sorry for the aberration.

anyway ,interesting.....I agree with all of that, but would just like to add, he did say it was the best job he ever had....and he did moot big club and big expectations.

However, It does tickle me, when I hear big expectations, when we have had what we have had over the last 10 years or so.

[TRO]

47 minutes ago, sne said:

24 out of 46 certainly isn't bad.

It's not promotion form, but it will easily get you into the play off any given season.

you say that, but.....Graham Taylor managed 22 wins in 44 games the season we finished second to Millwall '87/'88....I think 3 teams like Wolves,Cardiff and Fulham had a big say in us finishing 4th....We still beat them all at home, its just what they did with the other teams.

They were so consistent....Fulham, from Jan onwards.

I don't think the present top of the table, would eclipse them.

[sne]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

you say that, but.....Graham Taylor managed 22 wins in 44 games the season we finished second to Millwall '87/'88....I think 3 teams like Wolves,Cardiff and Fulham had a big say in us finishing 4th....We still beat them all at home, its just what they did with the other teams.

They were so consistent....Fulham, from Jan onwards.

I don't think the present top of the table, would eclipse them.

Well I certainly can't argue against that 

 

[Zatman]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

...I think 3 teams like Wolves,Cardiff and Fulham had a big say in us finishing 4th....We still beat them all at home, its just what they did with the other teams.

If count play-off final we played 4 away games vs them 3 teams and scored ZERO goals

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Zatman said:

If count play-off final we played 4 away games vs them 3 teams and scored ZERO goals

yeah not good.....rarely is anything that bad or that good.

Personally as just one example....I think both Fulhams full backs were better than ours, as was at least one of their midfielders in Cairney

2 of our best players were out for long periods too.....so it could have been so much different....but.

We would probably have still been with Xia and that Circus.....so Clouds & silver linings and all that.

We just have to recover....and the problem with that is, its always just when we want it....it might be when we least expect it.

The wonder of Football.

Edited February 26, 2019 by TRO