Steve Bruce

[Guest av1]

Whatever you say about the style of football (which I'm sure will improve) I've enjoyed every game I've been to since Steve Bruce arrived. And judging from the noise from the Holte End on Thursday i think the majority of fans share my view. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

59 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I can only hope Xia and Bruce buck the trend although I don't hold out an real great hope of future success. Just not being an embaressment would be a start.

Why not?

I mean listen, I know how shit things have been. I've been there. But what is the point of football if not for the hope? It might take a while, but we will get there. Where 'there' is I don't know, but we will. 

[markavfc40]

36 minutes ago, a m ole said:

If the performances were truly 'woeful' then we wouldn't have got 2 points per game and remained unbeaten at home.

'not great' would be more appropriate, and i'm sure we've seen this silly hyperbole somewhere before...

I think there has been a loss of perspective and maybe we all need to remember what Bruce inherited here.

The squad was massively overhauled in the summer and whilst strong in some areas it is really weak in others so is unbalanced. On top of that for the first 12 games of the season they worked under a manager who had assembled them but didn't have a clue how to get the best out of them. When Bruce arrived we had won 1 in 11, had zero confidence, had completely forgotten what it was like to win on the road and every time we got to the last 10 minutes in games we were shaking like shitting dogs for fear of the almost inevitable concession of a goal.

Under Bruce we average two points a game. We have had one dire performance under him at Norwich, one very good performance at Brighton but in the main I'd describe performances under him as effective.

Points and performances wise I expected no more. We have a squad of players lacking a couple of vital components still getting used to playing together working under their second manager in 4 months. The fact it isn't at times pretty to watch should not be a surprise and used as a stick to beat the manager with. At this point I'd just be grateful we have a manager who has enough about him to pick up a good return of points whilst working around the obvious deficiencies in the squad he inherited. 

[sne]

2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think there has been a loss of perspective and maybe we all need to remember what Bruce inherited here.

The squad was massively overhauled in the summer and whilst strong in some areas it is really weak in others so is unbalanced. On top of that for the first 12 games of the season they worked under a manager who had assembled them but didn't have a clue how to get the best out of them. When Bruce arrived we had won 1 in 11, had zero confidence, had completely forgotten what it was like to win on the road and every time we got to the last 10 minutes in games we were shaking like shitting dogs for fear of the almost inevitable concession of a goal.

Under Bruce we average two points a game. We have had one dire performance under him at Norwich, one very good performance at Brighton but in the main I'd describe performances under him as effective.

Points and performances wise I expected no more. We have a squad of players lacking a couple of vital components still getting used to playing together working under their second manager in 4 months. The fact it isn't at times pretty to watch should not be a surprise and used as a stick to beat the manager with. At this point I'd just be grateful we have a manager who has enough about him to pick up a good return of points whilst working around the obvious deficiencies in the squad he inherited. 

All true.

But we also have to take into account the absolutely dire quality of most of the teams we are facing.

The Championship is for the most part awful, and we are still looking very much a Championship team.

Sure every aspect of our performances will improve once we get a midfield thou.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Great post @markavfc40

As for the style of football, I think it's similar aesthetically, in a different manner, to how we played under O'Neill in a very different way. Only you're swapping Ashley Young for Albert Adomah, Carew for Kodjia, Gabby for, well, Gabby. I recall people at that time saying it was the worst they'd ever seen, that it was unsustainable. 

One more thing to add; The hallmark of every decent Villa side I've seen is the ability to defend. Thank the lord McGrath himself we are seeing some decent defending down Villa way again. I hadn't realised how much I had missed the art form. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 minute ago, sne said:

All true.

But we also have to take into account the absolutely dire quality of most of the teams we are facing.

The Championship is for the most part awful, and we are still looking very much a Championship team.

Sure every aspect of our performances will improve once we get a midfield thou.

We are a Championship side yes. What do you want us to look like, a Premier League team? You can't build one of those in one transfer window, not even with £50m. We failed at that when we were IN the Premier League. 

[TRO]

When Steve Bruce came in I was hoping....hoping not expecting,he would do what he has done.

If I am being honest I don't much like this assembly of players, but obviously Villa is my team....there are things I see that don't fit comfortable with me, but hey ho!

Despite us spending huge sums of money on the squad, it is imbalanced imo( i think we all agree on that).....I have had grave reservations in recent years of the ability of the club to buy the right players and I am hoping we can get that right and produce a team again, my suspicions is it will take more than one window, but we will see.

However, What SB has done with this patchwork quilt, in my view is remarkable in such a short space of time..... He knows its no where near the finished article ( If there is ever such thing in football) he has only just started.He knows its not eye candy and the things that I don't particularly like I would guess he don't either.

I believe we have a good owner and manager with what appears a good management structure.....We all want jam today.....but lets let them get on with it.

while they are trying to produce the team we all want........they are giving us a few wins along the lumpy/bumpy way.

I say Bravo guys.!!!

[markavfc40]

16 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

As for the style of football, I think it's similar aesthetically, in a different manner, to how we played under O'Neill in a very different way. Only you're swapping Ashley Young for Albert Adomah, Carew for Kodjia, Gabby for, well, Gabby. I recall people at that time saying it was the worst they'd ever seen, that it was unsustainable. 

One more thing to add; The hallmark of every decent Villa side I've seen is the ability to defend. Thank the lord McGrath himself we are seeing some decent defending down Villa way again. I hadn't realised how much I had missed the art form. 

 

I think Bruce has tried to do what all decent managers do which is try to find a way of playing that gets the best out of the squad and most importantly gets the maximum return in points. I agree about O'Neill but he had the luxury of assembling that squad intentionally to play that way. Bruce inherited a good group of defenders and exceptional array of forwards for this league but no midfield to link it all together. He has had to cut his cloth to suit and I think one of the reasons you see him chop and change so frequently is that despite the decent return in points he is not happy with how we are playing. In fact in pretty much every interview I have seen with him he has said as much.

 

I think compared to the last handful of managers we have had he has been a breath of fresh air. No bullshit has left his mouth. He says it as we all see it. He doesn't try to dress up a poor performance into a good one. That gives me confidence he will put things right quickly as otherwise having acknowledged where we are lacking to not address it would be incompetent and Bruce certainly isn't that.

 

Once he does fill the gaps in the squad I think the performances will improve but regardless of that I am confident at the very least we will continue to play football that secures results which for where we are now is all that concerns me.

Edited December 31, 2016 by markavfc40

[sne]

13 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

We are a Championship side yes. What do you want us to look like, a Premier League team? You can't build one of those in one transfer window, not even with £50m. We failed at that when we were IN the Premier League. 

Haha yeah, fair enough.

The point I was trying to make is that even with all the issues we all know we have I'm still a bit disappointed about how bad we look in possession, even against very poor opposition.

In the same way I was more angry about the performances under Lambert during the 2 legs against League 2 side Bradford than I was after the 8-0 thrashing against a very good Chelsea team.

[VILLAMARV]

Happy New Year to Mr Bruce. I was always convinced he was the right sort of manager for us where we are but I was one of those with my claret and blue tinted goggles on and didn't want him. I'd have McCarthy over him, I said.
I totally think we need building up as a club. The incoming of Xia and the wave of euphoria that followed has subsided and the stark reality of where we are right now seems to have sunk in. We've been a shambles. Last years relegation wasn't even with a whimper on the way out of the door. I remember the votes at the start of the season "where will we finish " etc. I remember being surprised how many people though we'd go straight back up. I think the pessimist in me went for mid table. I still think just making the play-offs (forget the 25% chance of actually winning them for a moment) would be good progress for us this year. But I am delighted we are in the hunt. Despite the obvious shortcoming of certain players and the team as a whole the individual moments that have carried us have carried us. Well done, because as others have said, what you inherited was in need of a shake up. The fun starts now though. We know what we need. can Bruce go out and attract the players we need? Simple as that.

Hope was all I asked of Xia in his first season. Turns out we have a small chance to go with that hope.

I think we can all agree at least that Bruce is undeniably the best manager we've had this year.
 

[sne]

2 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

I think we can all agree at least that Bruce is undeniably the best manager we've had this year.
 

No doubt about that 

Wonder where we've been had he'd been the only manager we've had this year?

[TrentVilla]

2 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

 

does that mean you missed our finest Hours?

 

Yep. We got relegated in my first season!

[Grasshopper]

11 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Yep. We got relegated in my first season!

mine too

to D3

[TrentVilla]

5 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Why not?

I mean listen, I know how shit things have been. I've been there. But what is the point of football if not for the hope? It might take a while, but we will get there. Where 'there' is I don't know, but we will. 

I'm not without hope but my hope has limitations. I no longer think the club can  ever really challenge the modern elite clubs, that's what a I mean by success.

We'll get back to the PL and likely become a regular fixture again. But I don't see much more than that being at all likely, I don't see us challenging for honours or even repeating the 'success' of the O'Neill years.

That I'm sure is depressing to some but that's my view and this isn't really the thread to expand on that further.

 

[VILLAMARV]

5 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I think compared to the last handful of managers we have had he has been a breath of fresh air. No bullshit has left his mouth. He says it as we all see it. He doesn't try to dress up a poor performance into a good one. That gives me confidence he will put things right quickly as otherwise having acknowledged where we are lacking to not address it would be incompetent and Bruce certainly isn't that.

Absolutely the best thing about him. I suppose having never really paid much attention to his post match interviews in the past I never gave it much thought but absolutely what we needed in that regard. And that's 'we' the fans.

[sidcow]

I think the style of play thing is a complete fallacy to be honest. 

I have seen no discernable drop in the attractiveness of our football over the last 4/5 years. Though that is not saying much to be honest. 

The only thing which is ruining our "style" is the fact that our awful players keep giving the ball away. If there was a 50% uplift in our passing success rate our football would be fine. 

Not sure how that is Bruce's fault.  He didn't buy the players or decide what we already have here is good enough.  Hopefully he will buy better players in January and in close season who are actually capable of delivering the basic requirements of a professional footballer. 

[Grasshopper]

6 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I think the style of play thing is a complete fallacy to be honest. 

I have seen no discernable drop in the attractiveness of our football over the last 4/5 years. Though that is not saying much to be honest. 

The only thing which is ruining our "style" is the fact that our awful players keep giving the ball away. If there was a 50% uplift in our passing success rate our football would be fine. 

Not sure how that is Bruce's fault.  He didn't buy the players or decide what we already have here is good enough.  Hopefully he will buy better players in January and in close season who are actually capable of delivering the basic requirements of a professional footballer. 

100% ^this^

[It's Your Round]

Winning football is the only football I care about right now, whether that means we hoof our way to promotion I don't care. We can worry about the fancy stuff when we're established back in the prem and challenging for the champions league again. 

[Woodytom]

8 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

And you're sure they aren't already doing this? But, as Trent alluded to, the players just aren't good enough to retain the ball, so the training isn't helping? Which would suggest that with results, Bruce is doing a very good job! 

No, I'm wrong. Woodytom, who struggles to watch many matches, actually is able to watch and listen to every single training session we do.

Also, I'd like you to tell me a drill on how to improve decision making? It's instinct when on the pitch. You can tell a player he made the wrong decision, and even put him in that position on a training ground and show him What he should've done, but on the pitch.... Instinct will kick in. 

I've watched plenty of matches actually. Thanks.

The players aren't good enough to retain possession? Do me a favour. Yesterday, we once again had 5 international footballers starting. Another 3 came on. Also 2 u21 internationals. Name me one Steve Bruce side that has been known for retaining possession?

As for decision making, you can teach it but we're hardly talking about mind blowing decisions here. Pass the ball to an unmarked player or try and dribble it through 4/5 players.

[Woodytom]

8 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

You can't really believe that? 

I think everyone agrees that at times it has been a difficult watch. The Norwich game was a horror show, but that stands as a bit of an outlier. The wins over Wigan and Burton were not pretty either, but they were wins at least. What we have done is kept on going, battling to the very end. Late goals against Reading, Fulham, QPR and Leeds attest to that. Blackburn took the lead, we fought back to win. Cardiff equalised, we didn't lose our head and ran out comfortable winners in the end. Burton equalised and despite the fact we were playing awful we pulled one out the bag.  Brighton equalised, we went on to play the best football I've seen us play in 6 years. 

It's rarely pretty, we all agree on that. If you want pretty football you're maybe following the wrong club, Aston Villa don't play that kind of football. Not in at least 25 years. It's functional, scrappy, resilient and it is at most times 'exciting' to watch. I can't get my head around somebody who sat through the utter bilge we served up last season, the flat, malfunctioning nonsense delivered by Lambert, Alex **** McLeish, saying that THIS is as dire as they have ever seen.

To say we're probably going to need to play better than this to sustain our form is one thing, I agree. So does the manager. To say what you have there, I honestly think you're posting for effect. 

The Norwich game was the worst I've ever seen. The Wigan game was as bad as I've seen bar the goal obviously. There's obviously moments where it's exciting (certainly not most of it as you suggest).

If you disagree, fine. I couldn't give a monkeys tbh but don't suggest I'm postin for effect because that's bullshit