Demitri_C Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, lapal_fan said: Well, there's nothing to compare, because unfortunately Lambert and Bruce didn't and probably won't manage Villa at the same time, play the same fixtures in the same order, with the same team choices.. Seriously, what are you even talking about? If there's any argument to be had, it's that you believe Lambert to be better than Bruce? Entirely your own opinion, but one that could never be proven, so is completely and utterly pointless. Also look how Lambert did at Wolves last year. He was pathetic, how can you even compare the two?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted December 12, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted December 12, 2017 36 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: The thing is, i don't have blind faith with bruce. I say it over and over and over again in here. I'm not that fond of Bruce, i don't think he's doing a particularly good job and I'd happily see him replaced next season. But in some posters' eyes (you included it would seem) if you don't condemn every single thing that Bruce does and go along with this ludicrous narrative that he's utterly useless and one of the worst managers ever, then you seem to be labelled as defending Bruce at every opportunity, and having blind faith. I don't have blind faith. I don't think bruce is the saviour. What I do think is that he's got a decent chance of getting us out of this league this season, and that, at this stage, sitcking with Bruce is our best chance of being in the Prem next season. I openly acknowledge that other managers would probably have done a better job with us this season though (although the mere suggestion that one of those is Tim Sherwood is literally making me chuckle at the thought) Labeling Bruce as one of our most useless managers EVER is just such a blatant exaggeration. I've said it before but it's posts like that that cause people to not take valid opinions seriously. There's clearly a proper debate to be had about Bruce's performance as our manager. But posts that are so demonstrably untrue turn the whole thread into a farce. This post is very true. The same could be said about those who do blindly follow Bruce. Fwiw Stevo I do read a lit of your posts, I disagree with you at times but I have never once thought of you as a 'Bruce lover'.... I want Bruce gone, that will never change but anyone who thinks he is getting sacked before the end of the season is going to be extremely disappointed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, AvfcRigo82 said: He was technically a bosman, but I get the sentiment.. also it was down to us and Birmingham city getting him due to Terry eliminating playing for another PL team. But to keep in with your statement we have all had managers piss money on flops agreed, but to do it now on the scale Bruce has makes the eyes open more I guess. The only major flop has been Hogan so far, the rest i odont see how he has spunked the money? 1m for elmo bargain, whelan was less, terry free, johnstone loan and snodgrass loan (coup) onomah (coup) he signed lanasbury and hourinahe less than 4m for the pair. the enxt you could argue is bree RDM is the real criminal here 20m on elphick, mccormack and tishbola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 15 hours ago, VillaChris said: It's obviously not as good as the MON days (what is) Well there was this fella called Ron Saunders.......... I envy you your youth Chris, but not your bank of Villa Memories 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted December 12, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yeah the same Lambert who brought in Tonev for 2m, Kozak 7m, Sanchez 4.5m, Gil 3.2m Barring Hogan who has Bruce signed for a significant transfer fee? I love the "scraping 5th when we have been in the top 6 for a month now Apart from Tonev, who is a word removed. I don't think the rests of those signings are ridiculous or over priced, so not sure it strengthens your argument. Edited December 12, 2017 by Villan_of_oz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yeah the same Lambert who brought in Tonev for 2m, Kozak 7m, Sanchez 4.5m, Gil 3.2m Barring Hogan who has Bruce signed for a significant transfer fee? I love the "scraping 5th when we have been in the top 6 for a month now Wow! Top 6th for a month - i’d Whisper that if I were you. i doubt very much Bruce is shouting from the roof tops given his remit on taking the post and for the record I would prefer Lambert over Bruce in a relegation battle please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 11 hours ago, TRO said: Lets get Marco Silva then......sorted. How did Koeman struggle at Everton after success at Southampton.....How did Ranieri struggle so dramatically after winning the league. you could play that game for Hours. How come Ron saunders did it with Villa, but not anywher else after he left. It happens.....it makes no affect to the debate Koeman finished 7th with Everton last season didn't he? Everton struggled because they took punts on strikers to replace Lukaku just like we did with Benteke. I'd also forgive a Villa manager struggling the following season if he won us the premier league I think.... The bar is being set very low for SB seemingly (to just qualify for the play offs) and he is just about achieving that atm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 14 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Well, there's nothing to compare, because unfortunately Lambert and Bruce didn't and probably won't manage Villa at the same time, play the same fixtures in the same order, with the same team choices.. Seriously, what are you even talking about? If there's any argument to be had, it's that you believe Lambert to be better than Bruce? Entirely your own opinion, but one that could never be proven, so is completely and utterly pointless. My point is clear - Lambert gets so much abuse on here and yet he kept this club in the prem on a shoestring budget and is never given credit for doing so. i recall the swashbuckling Norwich side that flew through League One and the Championship - he then turns up at Villa Park and told to do battle with one hand shoved behind his back. Its no wonder he retreated into a shell Wolves for me is another story I kind of think he was only ever makeshift. they have something else going on their right now and a comparison to Lambert is not a fair one in my view 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Lambert 13/14 vs Bruce 16/17 & 17/18 Lambert 13/14 Expectation: Around 12th / 42 pts - 1.1 ppg Result: 15th / 38 pts - 1.0 ppg Below expectations by .1 ppg 9% below expectation Bruce 16/17 Expectation: top 6 / 80 pts - 1.73 ppg Result: 13th / 62 pts - 1.34 ppg Below expectation by .39 ppg 22% below expectation Bruce 17/18 Expectation - automatic promotion - 2 ppg Current position - 5th - 1.76 ppg Below expectation by .24ppg 12% below expectation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Dave J said: My point is clear - Lambert gets so much abuse on here and yet he kept this club in the prem on a shoestring budget and is never given credit for doing so. i recall the swashbuckling Norwich side that flew through League One and the Championship - he then turns up at Villa Park and told to do battle with one hand shoved behind his back. Its no wonder he retreated into a shell Wolves for me is another story I kind of think he was only ever makeshift. they have something else going on their right now and a comparison to Lambert is not a fair one in my view He doesn't get "so much abuse" on here. He gets his fair share from the people who are probably just as fervent the other way about Bruce. I for one recognise Lambert was on a hiding to nothing given our situation/financial restraints, but Lambert can't be compared to Bruce, you're right. The problem you have is not finding the middle ground. There is no comparison between Lambert and Bruce, positive or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Michael118 said: Lambert 13/14 vs Bruce 16/17 & 17/18 Lambert 13/14 Expectation: Around 12th / 42 pts - 1.1 ppg Result: 15th / 38 pts - 1.0 ppg Below expectations by .1 ppg 9% below expectation Bruce 16/17 Expectation: top 6 / 80 pts - 1.73 ppg Result: 13th / 62 pts - 1.34 ppg Below expectation by .39 ppg 22% below expectation Bruce 17/18 Expectation - automatic promotion - 2 ppg Current position - 5th - 1.76 ppg Below expectation by .24ppg 12% below expectation Means absolutely nothing to anyone, other than yourself. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 12, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted December 12, 2017 46 minutes ago, Dave J said: So Lambert keeps us in the prem on Buttons and you laud it over Bruce for scappng 5th at present with the resource at his disposal - sometimes!! 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I say it over and over and over again in here. I'm not that fond of Bruce, i don't think he's doing a particularly good job and I'd happily see him replaced next season. Exhibit A. I don't laud it over Bruce. But people seem to read what they want just to have an argument 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 14 hours ago, VillaChris said: To spin it around...how does Marco Silva at two seperate clubs now in the premier league immediately get those teams playing with a style and good identity? I know Hull went down but when he took over last year they were going down with a whimper. He got them some excellent results but time was against them. Now improved Watford from their malaise of last season. He hasn't spent a huge amount at either club but is having a similar impact to when Pochettino turned up at Southampton with them bottom 3. Could it be those pesky double training sessions I wonder.... Well, he's spent the best part of £55m - and in Richarlison (£18m), they've got a great talent. Watford actually had a decent season last time out, but lost 7 of their last 8 games to finish 17th. As you say, definite end of season malaise. He's doing a decent job, for sure. I'm assuming it's because he's Portuguese and has been called "mini Mourinho" that he is revered as the second coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Exhibit A. I don't laud it over Bruce. But people seem to read what they want just to have an argument All. The. Time. If you're not too fussed about Steve Bruce getting sacked right now, you're his biggest fan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 32 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said: Apart from Tonev, who is a word removed. I don't think the rests of those signings are ridiculous or over priced, so not sure it strengthens your argument. Kozak was a good signing? 7m was ridiculous he was never worth that the others cost 7m so that was 14m on garbage 30 minutes ago, Dave J said: Wow! Top 6th for a month - i’d Whisper that if I were you. i doubt very much Bruce is shouting from the roof tops given his remit on taking the post and for the record I would prefer Lambert over Bruce in a relegation battle please So now you have changed you story from "scraping 5th" (which you were wrong) to now highlighting that, that isnt good enough? Those are two completely different points Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: Well, he's spent the best part of £55m - and in Richarlison (£18m), they've got a great talent. Watford actually had a decent season last time out, but lost 7 of their last 8 games to finish 17th. As you say, definite end of season malaise. He's doing a decent job, for sure. I'm assuming it's because he's Portuguese and has been called "mini Mourinho" that he is revered as the second coming? 55m isn't actually a huge amount in premier league terms anymore, in the MON era yes it was. Likes of Stoke, Crystal Palace and West Ham spent similar amounts in the summer and they've all been awful to watch so far. You're right Watford were generally mid table last season until the last month but everytime I saw them live under Mazzari I wondered how they were miles clear of relegation as they were awful to watch. Their 1-0 win at Boro last season was one of the worst non-Villa premier league games I'd seen in years. I like Silva as his teams have a clear identity. You can see the work he puts on the training ground by how they play and it gets the best out of Richarlison. Would he have been so good at Stoke or West Ham for instance who generally don't embrace attacking talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Means absolutely nothing to anyone, other than yourself. What don't you understand about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 24 minutes ago, VillaChris said: The bar is being set very low for SB seemingly (to just qualify for the play offs) and he is just about achieving that atm. Too low, again just to keep face that certain posters have backed him to the hills and now defend him to the mountains, lower our expectations that just making playoffs is acceptable and conclude Gabby Agbonlahor is the answer to our striker crisis! Mental. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Kozak was a good signing? 7m was ridiculous he was never worth that the others cost 7m so that was 14m on garbage So now you have changed you story from "scraping 5th" (which you were wrong) to now highlighting that, that isnt good enough? Those are two completely different points Dave Sorry but I am unclear what you mean ? Is top 5 or 6 good enough given the length of time he has been here and the resource available to him ? If you want my honest view absolutely not and I would ask you this in the corridors of powers do you think they too would be satisfied ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dave J said: Sorry but I am unclear what you mean ? Is top 5 or 6 good enough given the length of time he has been here and the resource available to him ? If you want my honest view absolutely not and I would ask you this in the corridors of powers do you think they too would be satisfied ? They'd take 6th place and promotion. They wouldn't take 3rd place but no promotion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts