Steve Bruce

[Stevo985]

19 minutes ago, Dave J said:

On the contrary I would debate with you until the cows come home - it's your attitude I struggle with in all honesty 

There's an ignore feature on this site. You can add me to that if you have such a problem with my posting style, rather than comment on it every time I post. It would save us both some time.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Stevo985

[TRO]

is the Dean Smith thing, a bit of a myth?

My understanding is that the walsall fans clapped him out the club, when he went.

so he is not maybe the nailed on solution that some allude to.

just another roll of the dice....like we seem to be always embroiled in.

Edited June 14, 2018 by TRO

[Rob182]

20 minutes ago, omariqy said:

I know all of that about Brentford but he is still a good coach and gets the best out of players. There is no reason why we can't be set up in a similar way. In fact we have Steve Round with his Villa Engine trying to do something very similar behind the scenes. Smith would not be my first choice at all but he is a good coach. No way do I expect promotion next year but we need to give a manager 2/3 years to build a new team, identity and try and get us promoted. Bruce isn't that man. If we were going down the same route as last year by buying experience and having another crack at it then maybe but we can't do that. 

Like you, I've read lots about how Dean Smith is just a mouthpiece and a face that follows instructions given to him, but I think there must be more to him than that. It seems like we've just taken what we've heard from Brentford fans as gospel, and that Dean Smith has happily given up all of his ambition as a manager to simply follow orders. As others have said, he had a good reputation when he was at Walsall, especially at bringing through players and making profit on them, IIRC, and that was all done without Brentford's system underneath him.

I think, like most things that we don't know the full facts on, his involvement and input probably falls somewhere in the middle. How many times in a season will a manager happily be overruled when he wants to make a sub mid-game before he kicks up a fuss?

[sne]

2 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

Wheras I would say failing to hit a specified target is failure.

Pretty much everyone agreed this was a pass fail season with promotion the only goal.

We failed that, but improved our position in the table.

We will also go into next season with a vastly inferior squad and starting 11 than we ended this season with.

This squad will be dismantled. We didn't build anything, we failed. We have nothing to show for this season apart from a nice day out at Wembley that ultimately ended in tears.

It was a failure. 

[AntrimBlack]

11 hours ago, terrytini said:

Leaving aside the pro v anti debate, I’m intrigued that for you a season is a failure because we didn’t get promoted.

Doesnt that mean it was a failure for 82 Clubs ? All except the promoted ones and the PL winners ?

I’ve never viewed football that way and didn’t really realise anybody else did ?

My favourite season as a Villa fan was in 75/76 ( I think) when we were 5th or 6th. Yet it was a failed season ?

A very strange point. It is a failure if you do not hit a specified target. Many of those clubs may have aspired to particular targets, with some success.

 As for your last sentence, we did not have a target, only hope, and it was a success from that point of view.

[Hoof hearted]

12 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

Wheras I would say failing to hit a specified target is failure.

Nailed it.

[omariqy]

20 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Like you, I've read lots about how Dean Smith is just a mouthpiece and a face that follows instructions given to him, but I think there must be more to him than that. It seems like we've just taken what we've heard from Brentford fans as gospel, and that Dean Smith has happily given up all of his ambition as a manager to simply follow orders. As others have said, he had a good reputation when he was at Walsall, especially at bringing through players and making profit on them, IIRC, and that was all done without Brentford's system underneath him.

I think, like most things that we don't know the full facts on, his involvement and input probably falls somewhere in the middle. How many times in a season will a manager happily be overruled when he wants to make a sub mid-game before he kicks up a fuss?

No you're wrong. He has to have someone in the car with him when he is driving to the training ground to tell him what gear to be in.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Or, people could do a tiny bit of research before posting.......

On that basis do we need to do research on the setup of every club before we comment on a clubs manager?

 

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I guess so. But I still think most people on VT's opinion of Dean Smith is based on the few games they've played against us as opposed to his achievements overall.

Fair point but I do think a lot of fans who admire Dean Smith have watched Brentford more than just the games against us. I watched them quite a few times last season and was always impressed with how they tried to play. 

[Delphinho123]

Came for the Bruce, left with the Smith. 
Shall we just set up a f****** Dean Smith appreciation thread and have done?

[briny_ear]

Must say though, it makes for a great CV:

”Almost got Walsall into the Division 1 promotion places.”

I would have thought the main problem with getting him to Villa would be the queue of other more prestigious clubs wanting to snap him up.

[omariqy]

There's plenty of better managers than Dean Smith who we could go for. 

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said:

A very strange point. It is a failure if you do not hit a specified target. Many of those clubs may have aspired to particular targets, with some success.

 As for your last sentence, we did not have a target, only hope, and it was a success from that point of view.

I don’t see it as a strange point. If you choose a black and white view of the season that’s fine. But I don’t. It goes without saying we failed to get promoted. But my opinion is that there is more to watching football than whether or not a specific goal is achieved, and classing a season as either a failure or a success ignores that.

Im not bothered if others view it differently, but that’s how I see it. Football is about escape and entertainment for me, and our Club provided a decent amount of that, so for me the season wasn’t a failure.

I suppose if the Club come out and say the target for Bruce next year is 16th anything above that will automatically equal success ? And people saying it all comes down to meeting the target will celebrate the achievement ?  I wait with interest to see that !

Im afraid I see your view of the last bit as being a bit odd. You are saying if you set a target and miss it it’s failure but if you don’t bother having a target it’s success ? 

 

[terrytini]

7 minutes ago, omariqy said:

There's plenty of better managers than Dean Smith who we could go for. 

There certainly are...I’m not sure what the fuss is with him. 

But exactly why would these guys - whoever they are - come here ?

[AntrimBlack]

Bruce is staying. We might as well get behind him, however reluctantly.

Really, I think the debate on both sides has been done to death, and I have not seen a fresh comment for some time.

And that includes me, I have just been repeating the same old rhetoric in response to other posters.

I am boring myself now.

So I say, let's get behind him. Let's see what the new season brings.

[sne]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

There certainly are...I’m not sure what the fuss is with him. 

But exactly why would these guys - whoever they are - come here ?

Because even thou we are flaundering atm for a lot of upcoming managers we still represent a interesting challenge and a chance to show of their potential?

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, sne said:

Pretty much everyone agreed this was a pass fail season with promotion the only goal.

We failed that, but improved our position in the table.

We will also go into next season with a vastly inferior squad and starting 11 than we ended this season with.

This squad will be dismantled. We didn't build anything, we failed. We have nothing to show for this season apart from a nice day out at Wembley that ultimately ended in tears.

It was a failure. 

See, that depends entirely on your point of view.

I got a great deal out of last season. Enjoyed some terrific games, some terrific wins, great experiences away from home and some new mates in our bit of the Holte, sang loads, loved the drama of being in the hunt for promotion, loved watching Terry and Snodgrass, and above all saw potentially the best youth product the Clubs had start to really flourish.

 

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, sne said:

Because even thou we are flaundering atm for a lot of upcoming managers we still represent a interesting challenge and a chance to show of their potential?

If I was a better manager than Dean Smith I’d go somewhere that had a degree of certainty of at least being in the League !

But joking aside.....we would indeed have an appeal to some up and coming Managers, but I’m not sure that answers the question.

Anyway, that’s for the New Manager thread I guess.

[AntrimBlack]

4 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I don’t see it as a strange point. If you choose a black and white view of the season that’s fine. But I don’t. It goes without saying we failed to get promoted. But my opinion is that there is more to watching football than whether or not a specific goal is achieved, and classing a season as either a failure or a success ignores that.

Im not bothered if others view it differently, but that’s how I see it. Football is about escape and entertainment for me, and our Club provided a decent amount of that, so for me the season wasn’t a failure.

I suppose if the Club come out and say the target for Bruce next year is 16th anything above that will automatically equal success ? And people saying it all comes down to meeting the target will celebrate the achievement ?  I wait with interest to see that !

Im afraid I see your view of the last bit as being a bit odd. You are saying if you set a target and miss it it’s failure but if you don’t bother having a target it’s success ? 

 

I have not chosen anything. Xia, Wyness and Bruce set the target. We failed to make it. 

If you cannot understand what I posted, I will leave it at that.

This debate is so pointless.

[sne]

2 minutes ago, terrytini said:

See, that depends entirely on your point of view.

I got a great deal out of last season. Enjoyed some terrific games, some terrific wins, great experiences away from home and some new mates in our bit of the Holte, sang loads, loved the drama of being in the hunt for promotion, loved watching Terry and Snodgrass, and above all saw potentially the best youth product the Clubs had start to really flourish.

 

That's all very nice.  But it won't help us next season. 

But on a personal plane i'm happy you enjoyed it.

[terrytini]

5 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

Bruce is staying. We might as well get behind him, however reluctantly.

Really, I think the debate on both sides has been done to death, and I have not seen a fresh comment for some time.

And that includes me, I have just been repeating the same old rhetoric in response to other posters.

I am boring myself now.

So I say, let's get behind him. Let's see what the new season brings.

Can’t help agreeing with 99% of that. FWIW though I thought this last bit was more to do with “ the season “ rather than specifically Bruce...

But, as I say, you make a good point. It is indeed boring now.