Stevo985 Posted January 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Despite that the defence starting well bruce made it worse each year. This season by far the worst I've seen in so long. But it was better last season than the season before. What a weird turn this thread has taken. We’re now trying to argue that despite everyone complaining Bruce set the team up defensively, he actually wasn’t that defensive? its amazing he’s had such a long career when he’s apparently absolutely terrible at everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Any good kebab shops in Sheffield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 10 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Well that's true. Weirdly we had one of the best defences in the league the year before Terry signed as well. Pure luck I guess This best defence you refer to would be season 16/17. Our players in defence at the time in were: Richards, Baker, Elphick, Chester, Hutton, Cissoko, Amavi, & De Laet - None of which were signed by Bruce as they were already at Villa by the time he had joined in Oct 2016. Who dismantled this 'best defence' you refer to? - Steve Bruce. 10 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Elphick was shit and got loaned out and Baker got sold to pay for one of the premier league's best ever defenders to play (very well) for us for a season. What's your point? Tommy Elphick who had been signed from Premier League Bournmouth {with promotion experience to his credentials} only the season before? Nathan Baker,amongst others, was sold to make way for deals that involved all eggs in one basket in a hope they would hit lucky and make it without any backup plan if it all went tits up at the play-offs. JT, Elmohamedy, Taylor & Chris Samba was the answer! Also eventually Tuanzebe in the January (who barely featured in season 17/18 anyway) However, Elphick was soon needed when Terry was injured but as soon as Terry returned, Elphick was bombed out again. Shit huh!? I think not since everyone felt it was harsh on Elphick at the time given his good performances during Terry's absence and no suprise he has played decent elsewhere and he is back leading our back line once again. 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I think you’re trying to remove any credit for Bruce regarding our good defence and saying it’s just because we had good players. if So then it’s bollocks, IMO of course. If not then I’m clueless. I will give credit to Bruce for having a game of golf with JT and getting him onboard, Granted. But May 2018 didn't go to plan. He had the task this season of now needing to rebuild a defence completely and no more JT. But In all seriousness, can you correct me and point me in a direction where else Bruce has bettered our defence since his arrival in October 2016, please, as I feel I am maybe missing something. This season we started with RDL, Elmo, Bree - all Right backs. We had James Chester and Tommy Elphick as our only two centre backs. And we have Taylor as our only left back. And so, Bruce signs Hutton, Tuanzebe on loan and then loans out RDL and then CB Elphick whilst ahort of CB's - Suicidal. This season seen us start a young CB Tuanzebe being played at Right back - ahead of 4 other right backs. A DM in Jedinak starts alongside Chester at CB and RB Alan Hutton starts at LB ahead of Taylor?. All of that defence are Bruce signings bar Elphick and RDL (both loaned out) Again, What Credit am I removing from Bruce? The fact he **** the defence once or twice, the fact he gave Alan Hutton another contract or a combination of all three? (Hutton - another one from your list of our shit players) Credit where credit is due I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: This best defence you refer to would be season 16/17. Our players in defence at the time in were: Richards, Baker, Elphick, Chester, Hutton, Cissoko, Amavi, & De Laet - None of which were signed by Bruce as they were already at Villa by the time he had joined in Oct 2016. Who dismantled this 'best defence' you refer to? - Steve Bruce. Tommy Elphick who had been signed from Premier League Bournmouth {with promotion experience to his credentials} only the season before? Nathan Baker,amongst others, was sold to make way for deals that involved all eggs in one basket in a hope they would hit lucky and make it without any backup plan if it all went tits up at the play-offs. JT, Elmohamedy, Taylor & Chris Samba was the answer! Also eventually Tuanzebe in the January (who barely featured in season 17/18 anyway) However, Elphick was soon needed when Terry was injured but as soon as Terry returned, Elphick was bombed out again. Shit huh!? I think not since everyone felt it was harsh on Elphick at the time given his good performances during Terry's absence and no suprise he has played decent elsewhere and he is back leading our back line once again. I will give credit to Bruce for having a game of golf with JT and getting him onboard, Granted. But May 2018 didn't go to plan. He had the task this season of now needing to rebuild a defence completely and no more JT. But In all seriousness, can you correct me and point me in a direction where else Bruce has bettered our defence since his arrival in October 2016, please, as I feel I am maybe missing something. This season we started with RDL, Elmo, Bree - all Right backs. We had James Chester and Tommy Elphick as our only two centre backs. And we have Taylor as our only left back. And so, Bruce signs Hutton, Tuanzebe on loan and then loans out RDL and then CB Elphick whilst ahort of CB's - Suicidal. This season seen us start a young CB Tuanzebe being played at Right back - ahead of 4 other right backs. A DM in Jedinak starts alongside Chester at CB and RB Alan Hutton starts at LB ahead of Taylor?. All of that defence are Bruce signings bar Elphick and RDL (both loaned out) Again, What Credit am I removing from Bruce? The fact he **** the defence once or twice, the fact he gave Alan Hutton another contract or a combination of all three? (Hutton - another one from your list of our shit players) Credit where credit is due I guess. Wow, that's a lot of effort for nothing My only point was that we had a good defence last season. And when someone said that was just because of JT, I pointed out we had a good defence the year before when we didn't have JT, therefore Bruce teams being good at defending wasn't just down to having John Terry. I never said Bruce didn't **** us over in defence this season. You seem to have used most of your post to make that point. It's one I have never disagreed with. Hence my confusion as to what you were on about. Edited January 4, 2019 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Wow, that's a lot of effort for nothing My only point was that we had a good defence last season. And when someone said that was just because of JT, I pointed out we had a good defence the year before when we didn't have JT. I never said Bruce didn't **** us over in defence this season. You seem to have used most of your post to make that point. It's one I have never disagreed with. Hence my confusion as to what you were on about. Don't mention it. You didn't know what I was on about and you started worrying yourself about being clueless so I thought I would help us both out by explaining in greater detail and to avoid any further confusion. I am Glad we made progress eventually. The defence while JT was here would have had his commanding voice and reassurance there while playing - we seen what a difference it made to Johnstone and Chester and the defence as a whole imo. Was this solely down to JT? possibly not - but I would say a very large percentage of it was and he seemed more of an influence to our defence than Bruce. Did you know that if Dean Smith recalls RDL from Australia, we would have the same defence again as what we did before Bruce arrived? RDL - Elphick - Chester - Hutton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Don't mention it. You didn't know what I was on about and you started worrying yourself about being clueless so I thought I would help us both out by explaining in greater detail and to avoid any further confusion. I am Glad we made progress eventually. The defence while JT was here would have had his commanding voice and reassurance there while playing - we seen what a difference it made to Johnstone and Chester and the defence as a whole imo. Was this solely down to JT? possibly not - but I would say a very large percentage of it was and he seemed more of an influence to our defence than Bruce. Did you know that if Dean Smith recalls RDL from Australia, we would have the same defence again as what we did before Bruce arrived? RDL - Elphick - Chester - Hutton. Having JT obviously helped a lot, but like I said we didn't have JT the season before and we still had a very good defence. So the argument that it was all because we had JT is demonstrably nonsense. And anyway, Bruce signed John Terry and managed him so even if it WAS all down to JT, it's still credit to Bruce for having him here, so it really doesn't take away from the point. FWIW a defence of RDL, Elphick, Chester and Hutton would be bang average. It's no wonder bruce made changes to that and things improved. Edited January 4, 2019 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) I fail to understand the obsession with picking the bones out of Bruces tenure.....He's Gone. Whatever the reasons for it are.....we concede too easily and too readily. While the back 5 has been the main culprit....defensively midfield has issues too.....its a collective problem. I am sure the club know and are trying to fix it. Edited January 4, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 11 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Despite that the defence starting well bruce made it worse each year. This season by far the worst I've seen in so long. I think losing Axel is a major blow.....The summer debacle was another set back....Hutton and Elmo losing form. all these things conspire against progress. I think Dean smith is searching for an answer.....I think Steve Bruce was doing the same. I think all is not well defensively in midfield either.....we miss Jacks ball control, where he retains possession. its a whole host of things the manager has to try and find a solution to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I don’t. I think you’re trying to remove any credit for Bruce regarding our good defence and saying it’s just because we had good players. if So then it’s bollocks, IMO of course. If not then I’m clueless. Edited January 4, 2019 by Dave J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brumstopdogs Posted January 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2019 At lesst he seems to be enjoying himself on holiday: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Sheffield Wednesday will make the play offs next season under Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: Sheffield Wednesday will make the play offs next season under Bruce. Nah, I don't think he'll relegate them this season. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, sne said: Nah, I don't think he'll relegate them this season. There's enough games left you know 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) On 04/01/2019 at 08:44, Stevo985 said: FWIW a defence of RDL, Elphick, Chester and Hutton would be bang average. It's no wonder bruce made changes to that and things improved. Bang average? The same group that you earlier state being a strong defence the season/year before JT as it's the same 4 minus Baker? We are only RDL returning for it to be the same defence again. One change he really made. John Terry. 2nd or 22nd. Bruce came and went and we're still in the same league. Any improvement has been nothing more than a quick fix imo. Is that same defence now bang average cause Bruce is no longer here papering over the cracks? Edited January 6, 2019 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 6, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 6, 2019 37 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Well we are only one player off it happening. And our defence is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Just now, Stevo985 said: And our defence is awful. I agree. It is looking very suspect now. It's very bad what Dean Smith inherited I am sure you will agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 another good result for Wednesday today, they are only 4 points behind us and the fans must be fearful for when this cricket ends 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, Zatman said: another good result for Wednesday today, they are only 4 points behind us and the fans must be fearful for when this cricket ends With a organized defense you always have a good chance winning a game who would have known? Maybe we should consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, villalad21 said: With a organized defense you always have a good chance winning a game who would have known? Maybe we should consider it. Send out manager to the Caribbeans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 On 19/01/2019 at 18:12, sne said: Send out manager to the Caribbeans? Well he has been a bit of a jerk lately 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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