Steve Bruce

[Spoony]

8 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

Oh, so you want Bruce to get us promoted, and then you want to replace him since the turgid football he plays won’t work there?

Tbh, I would have thought the answer to that is yes. The poster above made a good point that this style of turgid football doesn’t work in the PL and you can see it through the teams who go up and stay up and the teams who go up and come straight back down (like, for example, the teams that Steve Bruce has promoted).

I think Steve Bruce is great at this league, but not the PL. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

Imagine if we wouldn't blown those matches after the Wolves win? We're probably going to pay very dearly for those results.

[vreitti]

24 minutes ago, Spoony said:

I think Steve Bruce is great at this league, but not the PL.

'Great' is taking it a bit far imho. I suppose he is decent enough for this level, but still in the end rather uninspiring. I can't help thinking, why do we always make it so hard for ourselves? This league was there for the taking with the squad we have, yet we are destined for the lottery of playoffs. As things stand I think he has failed, but that could of course change if we are promoted.

Edited April 14, 2018 by vreitti

[vreitti]

11 hours ago, terrytini said:

I agree with most of this but actually I find our football enjoyable and have done with a few exceptions since about October......I struggle to find watching Grealish and Albert in full flow dull.......I enjoy watching Chester and a Terry defend, I enjoy us winning, I enjoy the desire, commitment, and heart I see most the time, I’m happy enough.

It’s not great - but I watch other Leagues such as the PL and don’t se a lot of great stuff there either.

 

That's incredible. I'm speechless. 

[OutByEaster?]

39 minutes ago, vreitti said:

That's incredible. I'm speechless. 

Seriously, you find it incredible that people find our football this season enjoyable?

Just for context, this is a season in which we've scored 67 goals, our second highest total since 1988 and a goalscoring season that's likely to finish as our highest since 1981. I don't know how old you are, but if you're less than 37 we'll score more goals this season than in any in your lifetime.

This is a season in which we've won 23 games, the most victories since 1981.

This is a season where we've gathered 79 points - the most in our entire history, the highest points total in a season that this club has ever had (And even in terms of direct comparisons the most since the league changed to three points for a win in 1981.)

I mean, I think style is important (and I also don't think we're without it), but unless you don't enjoy seeing us scoring goals and winning games, I'd have to question how you can't have enjoyed a season that's been as good for that as any since the early 80's.

 

[vreitti]

4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Seriously, you find it incredible that people find our football this season enjoyable?

Just for context, this is a season in which we've scored 67 goals, our second highest total since 1988 and a goalscoring season that's likely to finish as our highest since 1981. I don't know how old you are, but if your less than 37 we'll score more goals this season than in any in your lifetime.

This is a season in which we've won 23 games, the most victories since 1981.

This is a season where we've gathered 79 points - the most in our entire history, the highest points total in a season that this club has ever had (And even in terms of direct comparisons the most since the league changed to three points for a win in 1981.)

I mean, I think style is important (and I also don't think we're without it), but if you don't enjoy seeing us scoring goals and winning games, I'd have to question how you can't have enjoyed a season that's been as good for that as any since the early 80's.

 

Yes. And to put it simply, for me football is a hell of a lot more than results, points and scoring goals. I get what you (and others) are saying, but it's just not enough for me.

For instance, the 'effective' football that Mourning is an advocate of, it isn't for me. It's negative and downright boring, much like us. I also get that it's a results business, and of course winning is important, but does it have to be everything? For me it just isn't. I want to be entertained too, instead of just 'effective' or 'great' from a results perspective. When people talk about villa I want them to talk about one of the greatest and most entertaining sides in the world. I'd rather linger here or whichever lower level division, if it meant no more dire, uninspiring, cautious Bruceball we're now witnessing. I'm crazy I know.

I was born 1981 so I suppose I've not yet seen anything better than this then, in my 25+ years of following the Villa. It's all relative though, and I think our mid to late nineties teams were quite entertaining, and mildly successful at the same time.

It sure has been utterly dreadful for a number of years now, so naturally I can understand people actually enjoying us at the moment.

[vreitti]

24 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I mean, I think style is important (and I also don't think we're without it), but if you don't enjoy seeing us scoring goals and winning games, I'd have to question how you can't have enjoyed a season that's been as good for that as any since the early 80's.

Your opinion. Not fact.

[OutByEaster?]

6 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Your opinion. Not fact.

The bit about style is opinion. The rest is fact.

Factually, objectively, by statistical measure, for scoring goals and winning games, this has been as good a season as any since the early 80's.

[vreitti]

Just now, OutByEaster? said:

The bit about style is opinion. The rest is fact.

Factually, objectively, by statistical measure, for scoring goals and winning games, this has been as good a season as any since the early 80's.

Well yes. I thought it was obvious from my earlier response, I'm talking about style, not statistics.

[vreitti]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The bit about style is opinion. The rest is fact.

Factually, objectively, by statistical measure, for scoring goals and winning games, this has been as good a season as any since the early 80's.

You did infer I need to enjoy us due to statistics, not style though 

[OutByEaster?]

11 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Yes. And to put it simply, for me football is a hell of a lot more than results, points and scoring goals. I get what you (and others) are saying, but it's just not enough for me.

The two things aren't entirely unlinked though surely? Good football produces goals and conversely it's difficult to score a lot of goals without at least some football that's enjoyable - we're scoring a lot of goals. 

Quote

 

For instance, the 'effective' football that Mourning is an advocate of, it isn't for me. It's negative and downright boring, much like us. I also get that it's a results business, and of course winning is important, but does it have to be everything? For me it just isn't. I want to be entertained too, instead of just 'effective' or 'great' from a results perspective. When people talk about villa I want them to talk about one of the greatest and most entertaining sides in the world. I'd rather linger here or whichever lower level division, if it meant no more dire, uninspiring, cautious Bruceball we're now witnessing. I'm crazy I know.

 

I think we've been entertaining this season, we've scored some fantastic goals, we've got players that are exciting to watch, we play a swift counter attacking style with traditional wingers given licence to take a man on and an old fashioned genius number ten given full encouragement to exercise his creative bent. We're not tiki taka and I think our aim is to be more Klopp than Mourinho. There are facts on goals and wins (things I personally enjoy) but I disagree with you also on your opinion that we're playing negative football. We're not a great passing side, but we do have players that are exciting to watch and encouraged to excite. "Bruceball" as you put it, has been quite flexible this season, there are games where we've sat in to get results and games where we've gone for teams - it's not been a relentless, joyless dirge - not by a long way. 

Quote

 

I was born 1981 so I suppose I've not yet seen anything better than this then, in my 25+ years of following the Villa. It's all relative though, and I think our mid to late nineties teams were quite entertaining, and mildly successful at the same time.

 

That's interesting, because certainly under Gregory we were more defensive than we are now, at least in my opinion. The rigid system with three at the back and wing backs that were rarely allowed to cross the halfway line was very much defend first and attack on the break football. They were better than this team, no doubt and we were in a better place then as a club, but I don't think there were more entertaining. I think the best Villa team we're seen in recent times was O'Neills in 2007-08, I liked that team a lot with Young, Gabby and Carew, again, that team was better than this one, but I think we played a similar style to the one we play today.

Quote

It sure has been utterly dreadful for a number of years now, so naturally I can understand people actually enjoying us at the moment.

It has been, the last five or six years have been very difficult to enjoy. I think they've had an effect on us in terms of the things we want. This season has been very different and personally speaking I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Seriously, you find it incredible that people find our football this season enjoyable?

Just for context, this is a season in which we've scored 67 goals, our second highest total since 1988 and a goalscoring season that's likely to finish as our highest since 1981. I don't know how old you are, but if you're less than 37 we'll score more goals this season than in any in your lifetime.

This is a season in which we've won 23 games, the most victories since 1981.

This is a season where we've gathered 79 points - the most in our entire history, the highest points total in a season that this club has ever had (And even in terms of direct comparisons the most since the league changed to three points for a win in 1981.)

I mean, I think style is important (and I also don't think we're without it), but unless you don't enjoy seeing us scoring goals and winning games, I'd have to question how you can't have enjoyed a season that's been as good for that as any since the early 80's.

I'm with @vreitti on this, but I think you're almost talking about different things. I've "enjoyed" the wins and scoring goals, but in terms of a spectacle nearly every game I've seen this season I haven't enjoyed, really. There's individual things to enjoy or admire ,whether it's the excellence of Terry's defending and ball use earlier in the season, Jack's marauding and trickery, Albert's unexpected goalscoring..etc. For balance I did enjoy the Norwich home game and also the latter stages of the defeat to Sheffield Wednesday at home when we were actually going for it. But the general nature of the football we play is a turn off for me. It's also teeth grindingly frustrating because there are sometimes glimpses of what could be, because the players are (with the odd exception) certainly good enough to play a more entertaining and adventurous style of football.

I guess it's sort of tolerable , entertainment traded for results, caution and percentages swapped for adventure and creativity. Also a tiny footnote is that those stats - we have played more games, obviously than you get in the Prem.

[bobzy]

16 hours ago, Spoony said:

Not having to watch boring football would be a good start. Someone who injects a bit of flair into how we play.

I did say though, I’m talking about a promotion scenario where we throw money at staying up. If we don’t, we might as well keep Bruce as grinding out 1-0 wins would be the best we could hope for. 

We've scored the third most goals in the Championship this season and are "only"  9 goals behind a side that will reach 100 points this season.  Of our 23 league wins this season, 6 have been 1-0.  There have certainly been some dull games along the way but, overall, I haven't found us boring at all.  Perhaps too long-ball at times, but not boring.  Even the "ground-out" 1-0 win against Cardiff was an entertaining game, I thought.

[a m ole]

I do wonder why some people bother to follow a team or even football when they don’t seem to enjoy 98% of the games they watch.

 

[OutByEaster?]

38 minutes ago, blandy said:

I've "enjoyed" the wins and scoring goals, but in terms of a spectacle nearly every game I've seen this season I haven't enjoyed, really.

Isn't there a point where those 67 punctuations of joy carry their own weight? I guess we're a little like a poor album with your three favourite songs on and of course it's sensible to enjoy the bits that have been enjoyable and not to enjoy the bits that haven't been enjoyable, but I think there's a weight to those 67 clenched fists, shouts of yes and little dances, just as I think there's weight to the 23 times hands have been raised to the air in victory, just as I think it's important not to forget the number of times we've played hopeless balls into unoccupied corners, dilly dallied in midfield and crossed balls into empty boxes. Constant joy is unrealistic, a complete lack of joy the same. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that we're the second coming of Brazil 82, we're often disconnected, disjointed and frustrating, I was just surprised that anyone could find that the idea that people were enjoying our football this season was incredible. There's been plenty to enjoy and plenty not to enjoy. To take no enjoyment out of this season's football at all is be me slightly ridiculous.

 

 

[vreitti]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

The two things aren't entirely unlinked though surely? Good football produces goals and conversely it's difficult to score a lot of goals without at least some football that's enjoyable - we're scoring a lot of goals. 

This is actually something that's puzzling me. We have scored a bucketload of goals, more so than I'd ever thought was possible, considering how poorly I think we've played. I suppose one has to conclude, we're in fact effective. Also we have some players with superb individual skills.

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think we've been entertaining this season, we've scored some fantastic goals, we've got players that are exciting to watch, we play a swift counter attacking style with traditional wingers given licence to take a man on and an old fashioned genius number ten given full encouragement to exercise his creative bent.

I suppose that's one way of looking at it, and I'm not saying you're entirely wrong either, but I can't say I feel we're quite as structured or systematic in our play. I generally think we 'just play', and whatever happens, happens. We do defend with determination and grit, at least when we're up for it.

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think the best Villa team we're seen in recent times was O'Neills in 2007-08, I liked that team a lot with Young, Gabby and Carew, again, that team was better than this one, but I think we played a similar style to the one we play today.

I agree about the similarity in playing style, and I never quite liked the fragile nature of that team either. We always crumbled at the end of the season. Also that squad was far more superior compared to the current, imho. I have to believe a more progressive manager could have had that team finishing in UCL seats.

[blandy]

1 minute ago, a m ole said:

I do wonder why some people bother to follow a team or even football when they don’t seem to enjoy 98% of the games they watch.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in the time I've been following Villa (it goes back rather longer than I'd like to confess ) we've had a range of styles and so on. But It's basically not possible to not take any interest in a lifelong affair, basically. What I can say is that I pick and choose games these days, rather than just renewing a season ticket each summer, regardless. It kind of hit me one day (the day we lost to Sheff Utd. at home in the FA cup 3rd round, 2014 under Lambert. I thought "I dunno why I'm here, this is just hapless and I don't enjoy it at all" and so that summer I didn't renew, and I changed from being a rabid fan to being a disinterested observer, really.  I stopped going. The kindness of a friend  @Rissogot me to the Wembley games under Sherwood, and I've since just gone to games where I fancied it - local ones to me, or most Saturday 3pm kick offs at home, basically. I look at as sort of something to do and a chance to meet friends rather than the devotion I used to have. Part of me would love to have an entertaining team to watch and to get hooked back into it all, but my bank balance and so on are happier now. But I don't suppose I'll ever stop following Villa one way or another, while I'm still breathing.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Lots of talk about our style. To be honest I'm not sure we have a style. It's just try to win. 

[vreitti]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that we're the second coming of Brazil 82, we're often disconnected, disjointed and frustrating, I was just surprised that anyone could find that the idea that people were enjoying our football this season was incredible. There's been plenty to enjoy and plenty not to enjoy. To take no enjoyment out of this season's football at all is be me slightly ridiculous.

Since you now brought it up again, I must admit it was more a humorous dig at @terrytini, than an altogether serious opinion. I do understand how and more importantly why some do enjoy us currently, and tbh I myself have occasionally enjoyed some of our football this season. Furthermore I fully enjoy Gresford with all my heart, every dying second!

[Risso]

5 minutes ago, blandy said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but in the time I've been following Villa (it goes back rather longer than I'd like to confess ) we've had a range of styles and so on. But It's basically not possible to not take any interest in a lifelong affair, basically. What I can say is that I pick and choose games these days, rather than just renewing a season ticket each summer, regardless. It kind of hit me one day (the day we lost to Sheff Utd. at home in the FA cup 3rd round, 2014 under Lambert. I thought "I dunno why I'm here, this is just hapless and I don't enjoy it at all" and so that summer I didn't renew, and I changed from being a rabid fan to being a disinterested observer, really.  I stopped going. The kindness of a friend  @Rissogot me to the Wembley games under Sherwood, and I've since just gone to games where I fancied it - local ones to me, or most Saturday 3pm kick offs at home, basically. I look at as sort of something to do and a chance to meet friends rather than the devotion I used to have. Part of me would love to have an entertaining team to watch and to get hooked back into it all, but my bank balance and so on are happier now. But I don't suppose I'll ever stop following Villa one way or another, while I'm still breathing.

Well, 1 out of 2 wasn't bad!