Steve Bruce

[striker]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Yours is too.....yes i think he will go if he fails to get us up this season.

I too would like to see more of the younger players, but I think its a dilemma.......do you go with youthful exuberance and a bit of inexperience or older heads, but slower legs.

I guess the smart money is on a bit of both.

However, we have seen in recent weeks a couple of young players form dip with the weight of responsibility....its tricky......but "fortune favours the brave"

TRO I'd like to see Bruce giving Hayes or O'Hare a chance instead of Onomah for a start. Imo both Villa youngsters have shown more in cameos than Onomah all season. Probably Hayes due to Grealish being fit again to create more of a balance.

Bruce could have also given McKirdy a chance against Derby with neither Gabby nor Hogan 100% fit.

Certainly if either Hayes or McKirdy had flopped most fans wouldn't have criticised Bruce for playing them and maybe would get behind the manager more for trying to bring the youngsters through.

As it is at the moment it's all a little too safe with results taking a bit of a dip. Wasn't it Bruce who said the Championship doesn't really start until the winter hits and Villa have the squad to cope. Well not a very auspicious start to the Winter League is it?

[pacbuddies]

19 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Not a chance in hell Rafa would come here with no money left to spend .

The time to attract a quality manager was summer 16 with loads of cash to spend but xia hung his hat on RDM and millions were pissed down the drain as  result 

Xia has appointed 2 crap managers and allowed both of them to waste £millions. I have little faith that if he sacks Bruce (who surely deserves it) he has the football nouse to appoint a decent manager. He is Lerner MK2 with a Twitter account.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, vreitti said:

You know you're on to something here!?

Whilst I don't believe we could just exchange Bruce with anybody, that'd automatically lead to promotion, I do honestly think we won't ever get promoted with him in charge. I'm forever grateful he's seemingly stopped 'the rot', whatever that was. I can't even precisely pinpoint what he's actually done, but we are now solid as a team, and do not crumble at the first sight of a setback, e.g. conceding a goal. 

At the same time I just feel he should've already done a lot MORE. We've reached a point where he isn't able to further develop the team as things stand, considering FFP restrictions, etc. He's taken us as far as he possibly could IMHO. I'm pretty sure he's disappointed himself, but I think it's evident his long term 'strategy' isn't going to work, when he isn't capable of developing the playing style. Give him £100M and he'll probably improve us again, but so would anybody else. And I'd rather we gamble on someone else, not that we can spend that amount. 

Sadly it is time to part ways, but Bruce deserves credit for laying down a solid foundation for someone else to build something extraordinary, and take us back where we belong. 

UTV

Some fair points but I doubt the club will sack him unless we fall out the playoffs and start lagging behind. 

So if that doesn't happen it means we are still in contention to make the playoffs therefore it is still possible we can get promotion. 

I think things will become clearer by the end of the year. 

[Stevo985]

5 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

 

I'm not constantly defending him either. In fact I wouldn't even say I do defend the job he is doing at Villa because it's hard to do that.

That's how this thread works though.

You even said in your OP that you don't think he's doing a good enough job. yet you still got labelled as defending everything Bruce does.

It's mad. if you don't disagree with everything Bruce does, apparently you defend him at every opportunity.

 

 

[DCJonah]

5 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

There are some posters who think that.

Probably not many at all and they may post the same thing over and over again but it has been said.  @Grasshopper will tell you any manager could do a better job. 

I'm not constantly defending him either. In fact I wouldn't even say I do defend the job he is doing at Villa because it's hard to do that.

I just try and keep it as balanced debate rather than it being as simple as - Bruce is manager so we are not getting promoted. 

I'm not looking for an argument. I just don't think Bruce is the reason for all our problems. 

Saying that if he was sacked in the morning I wouldn't be upset about it.

Fair enough

But in the previous post you've invented things as a reason why you choose to defend him, how is that balanced?

[vreitti]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

• It was 3 wins in a season in the Prem
• It was 4 wins in 18 Months
• It was 1 league win in 11 games before he arrived.

I think that was pretty much a well rooted ROT.

I've been following Villa for the better part of thirty years now, so yes I am well aware of our recent struggles from a result perspective. I always thought the ROT was something else though, more than just failing managers and poor results. Something fundamentally wrong behind the scenes and what not. Perhaps my view on a manager, as some sort of sole responsible entity in regard to football clubs is unfair, I dunno. Perhaps the Dr. was in fact the one that stopped the ROT 

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

That's how this thread works though.

You even said in your OP that you don't think he's doing a good enough job. yet you still got labelled as defending everything Bruce does.

It's mad. if you don't disagree with everything Bruce does, apparently you defend him at every opportunity.

 

 

Or you have people sarcastically exaggerate why some have lost faith in bruce or even just make things up. 

[vreitti]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Some fair points but I doubt the club will sack him unless we fall out the playoffs and start lagging behind. 

So if that doesn't happen it means we are still in contention to make the playoffs therefore it is still possible we can get promotion. 

I think things will become clearer by the end of the year. 

I agree, the results need to get way worse in order for that to happen. And I hope they don't, yet at the same time I hope we make a change. 

Bruce will know what's at stake. I think we'll beat Sheffield U. Then loose to Bristol C. The results will keep on being inconsistent, until we change the way we approach games (IMO).

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Or you have people sarcastically exaggerate why some have lost faith in bruce or even just make things up. 

Indeed. 

The making up of straw men is happening all over the place on both sides of the argument. Just ask @pacbuddies and @Grasshopper 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Stevo985

[vreitti]

9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

That's how this thread works though.

You even said in your OP that you don't think he's doing a good enough job. yet you still got labelled as defending everything Bruce does.

It's mad. if you don't disagree with everything Bruce does, apparently you defend him at every opportunity.

 

 

Give it a rest, it's not like that on here, and you know it.

[sne]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

That's how this thread works though.

You even said in your OP that you don't think he's doing a good enough job. yet you still got labelled as defending everything Bruce does.

It's mad. if you don't disagree with everything Bruce does, apparently you defend him at every opportunity.

 

 

And likewise it's very easy to be labeled a moaner, doom monger, hater, fickle or Brouter  and so on.

If you dare to question the direction we are going under Bruce some posters will make it out like you wan't us to fail so you can have bragging rights in a fan forum.

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, vreitti said:

Give it a rest, it's not like that on here, and you know it.

Nah, not at all...

 

5 hours ago, DCJonah said:

15 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I agree. I've said many times I'm not a fan of Bruce but when I see post after post about what a bad manager he is and how literally ANYBODY could do a better job I feel the urge to defend him. 

He is not doing a good enough job but to suggest all our problems lie with one man and changing that man will mean promotion is absurd! 

 

You're creating made up posts to defend your position of constantly defending him. 

 

(sorry DCJ, don't mean to pick on you, it's just the most recent example)

It happens all the time in here. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been labelled as defending everything Bruce does, and then having to remind posters that I don't actually like Bruce that much, don't think he's doing a good job and wanted him sacked at the start of the season.

This thread is binary. If you're not 100% Bruce out then you're perceived as 100% Bruce in. And Vice versa.

It drives me up the wall.

[Stevo985]

6 minutes ago, sne said:

And likewise it's very easy to be labeled a moaner, doom monger, hater, fickle or Brouter  and so on.

If you dare to question the direction we are going under Bruce some posters will make it out like you wan't us to fail so you can have bragging rights in a fan forum.

I don't think that's true though. There are many posters on here who rightly question bruce, myself included. I question bruce and get labelled as defending him at every opportunity.

It probably does happen but I'm positive it happens more in the other direction.

Questioning Bruce is fine. It's the constant bashing of everything the guy does that gets on people's nerves.

We're 5th in the league. We're not doing as well as we should. But the perception that people are building up that Bruce is, to quote a poster in this thread, "the most useless manager we've ever had" is such an exaggerration.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Stevo985

[sne]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

I don't think that's true though. There are many posters on here who rightly question bruce, myself included. I question bruce and get labelled as defending him at every opportunity.

It probably does happen but I'm positive it happens more in the other direction.

Questioning Bruce is fine. It's the constant bashing of everything the guy does that gets on people's nerves.

You would say that you big o'l Bruce lover.

[AvfcRigo82]

41 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Not a chance in hell Rafa would come here with no money left to spend .

The time to attract a quality manager was summer 16 with loads of cash to spend but xia hung his hat on RDM and millions were pissed down the drain as  result 

No money left to spend until June (if we are promoted).

Question is that of someones calibre as Rafa's and the squad that we have.. I don't think he would need to spend at all as I believe he would get a lot more out of this squad what Bruce has and ever will.

However, I do not think someone like Rowett or D Smith would have the same impact as what Rafa would.

As stated, the expectation and pressure alone would not be fair on Rowett or Smith.

Someone like Benithez would cope with the pressure.

I would rather act now than say 5 months when it is too late.

What is to say that we don't make promotion or the playoffs even and then Bruce resigned and pissed off in June anyway..

Leaves us with no squad hardly, no money and a big **** mess in this league.

You think we have problems now.. think of the shit we would be in if that where to happen RE: Bruce just resigning after he has failed and leaves us in more shit than he found us.

I will give him until Jan 1st to improve results but if it has not improved then something needs to be done and quickly.

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Nah, not at all...

 

(sorry DCJ, don't mean to pick on you, it's just the most recent example)

It happens all the time in here. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been labelled as defending everything Bruce does, and then having to remind posters that I don't actually like Bruce that much, don't think he's doing a good job and wanted him sacked at the start of the season.

This thread is binary. If you're not 100% Bruce out then you're perceived as 100% Bruce in. And Vice versa.

It drives me up the wall.

TBH i was wrong to use the word constantly. I was just picking up on the made up reasons he gave for having to jump to the managers defence. 

[Dom_Wren]

I want him gone, but think he will stay to see if we go up, then if we don't leave, and i can see the sense in that at this stage.

If he gets us up, hell be gone and a progressive manager appointed, if he doesn't hell be gone and a less well known progressive manager will be appointed.

Were not far away from seeing if the tried and trusted Bruce approach worked or didn't. Either way he wont be gaffing next season.

[Vive_La_Villa]

50 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Fair enough

But in the previous post you've invented things as a reason why you choose to defend him, how is that balanced?

Come on mate. I haven't invented anything. It has definitely been suggested that we can't get promoted with Bruce in charge. 

Ok maybe nobody has directly said if we changed managers we would get promoted but there have been suggestions that sacking him now gives us a better chance.

Anyway the point of my original post has been lost now. 

[hippo]

2 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

to meIt looks like Bruce is massing his way to being unsackable.

All the time he‘s on a 1yr rolling contract, however good or bad he does, he‘ll always get a payoff.

Wyness & Round targeted him so they are standing by him. All Bruce has to do is keep „the possibility of promotion within reach“ for them to keep backing him and blind Tony with  the „we are experienced guys, we know what we are doing“ mantra.

Meanwhile, Bruce surrounds himself with his „boys“ keeping the „jobs for the boys“ chain in tact.

It starts with Wyness -> Round -> Bruce -> Agnew -> Clements -> Calderwood and god knows who else.

Tony is confronted with a „Sack One - Sack all“ senario. We are on the ffp borderline, Sacking that lot more than likely sends us over the edge. So it‘s in for a penny, in for a pound.

We‘ve had this before with Lerner and we have it again with Xia. Lerner was too stupid as a business man to correct his own mistakes.

DrT will need some almighty big balls to disturb the nice little nest that Bruce has around him. Those above and below him are dependant on him for keeping them in a job. AND thats what it is A JOB, paid hansomely.

None of Wyness, Round, Bruce, Agnew, Clements or Calderwood are Villans at heart. They are all more than likely well aware that this is „as good as it gets“ for them. So they‘ll ALL cling on for dear life.

One only has to ask oneself.

Where do any of them go from here?

Nowhere. When they fail at this job, they are all done in football at PL & Ch level.

When they‘ve all been shipped out, what will we have left?

1 - An owner with his hands tied by ffp (regardless if anyone thinks he has money or not)

2 - no staff or players to even maintain a status quo

3 - a half empty stadium of disillusioned fans

DrT would only get a percentage amount of Capital Assets value, because, no-one would have the money or dream to take us on

In the meantime all we have is Shit Bruce-Ball as our spectacle

Bruce is on a rolling 1 year contract - that IMO protects the club more than Bruce - we can get rid of him at any point for a years salary £1-1.5m ?  - Had he been on bog standard 3 or 4 year deal it would be more costly to get rid of him.

The coaching staff won't be on anything like that salary - in relative terms they will cost pennies to get rid of - I really don't see that protecting Bruce at all 

I think Bruce would pretty easily get another championship Job - if he wants it.

I don't view the picture if we don't get promoted as gloomy as you do. Sure some of the better players will leave - but we are a championship club - if PL clubs come in for Chester, Kjodia we would probably have little option anyway.

We are a tough to beat in unspectacular team - any new manager coming in has to tweak what is there , he isn't facing the total rebuild that RDM was faced with ...(and did poorly...) 

Whatever the reason, blame bruce or not - we need a guy who can stick the ball in the net - sort that and we are one of the better championship teams - either now or next season...

 

 

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't think that's true though. There are many posters on here who rightly question bruce, myself included. I question bruce and get labelled as defending him at every opportunity.

It probably does happen but I'm positive it happens more in the other direction.

Questioning Bruce is fine. It's the constant bashing of everything the guy does that gets on people's nerves.

We're 5th in the league. We're not doing as well as we should. But the perception that people are building up that Bruce is, to quote a poster in this thread, "the most useless manager we've ever had" is such an exaggerration.

As is saying 'we are way off' where we should be IMO. 

I've commented on how irritating I also find the binary approach where you have to pick a side and defend it at all costs before. It's as if people think they'll look weak or something if they change their minds or just have a more balanced view. I think it might be a symptom of the gradual Americanisation of our society - a total lack of subtlety, nuance or shading. DERPOCRAT OR REPUBLIDER! CHOOSE NOW AND FOREVER BE THAT WAY!