Eastie Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, briny_ear said: Yeh, I would have taken Onomah off at half time. But I think Bruce’s subs were more about changing the shape of how we played rather than dealing with individual poor performance. Maybe he thought Josh would have more chance to flourish in a more offensive set up. Problem Is that’s not omamahs game as spurs fans will tell you , he’s not an offensive midfielder and hourihane offers far more than Him in an offensive midfield role as well as possessing far better set piece delivery which we were lacking in the later stages . The mistake for me was who went off and who stayed on - no problem with Jedi and Davis coming on although I would have preferred the change at half time as it clearly wasn’t working . Edited October 31, 2017 by Eastie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 55 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: The issue I have is that the last 15 minutes of the first half we were doing nothing going forward and Onomah was totally anonymous. The brave thing to do, or at the least the attacking thing to do, would have been to bring Davis on for Onomah and go with a 4-4-2 and really take the game to Sha. Instead we waited until over an hour before making a change and that was hardly a positive one despite Jedinak making a decent impact. I'd have loved to have seen how Sha would handle Davis and Kodjia through the middle as personally I don't hink they woudl have coped. That game was there to be won and with more positive substitutions we'd have given ourselves a much better chance of wining it. Be interesting to see what he does tomorrow now. If Kodjia is out does he simply replace him with Davis and keep the rest of the front 6 the same or does he drop Onomah and go with Davis and Hogan up top and really try to exploit Prestons problems at centre back. We are on a very good run at the moment but due to a poor start we are still playing catch up on the top 2 which is where we have to be. The only way we are going to catch them is to win games and when that chance presents itself, as it did on Sunday, we have to be positive and really go for it. Pretty much bang on the money . I’d hope he goes with hogan and Davis and we have a real go tomorrow night - Sunday was 2 points dropped for me against a very average side at best - I think Davis could be the ideal man to get the best from hogan with the width we have in the side . Hopefully Bruce has the balls to set up in a positive way with Taylor , hogan and Davis in for Hutton onomah and kodjia Edited October 31, 2017 by Eastie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: An offensive set up ,haven't seen one of them in a long time. Then you must have a pretty shit memory! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, markavfc40 said: The issue I have is that the last 15 minutes of the first half we were doing nothing going forward and Onomah was totally anonymous. The brave thing to do, or at the least the attacking thing to do, would have been to bring Davis on for Onomah and go with a 4-4-2 and really take the game to Sha. Instead we waited until over an hour before making a change and that was hardly a positive one despite Jedinak making a decent impact. I'd have loved to have seen how Sha would handle Davis and Kodjia through the middle as personally I don't hink they woudl have coped. That game was there to be won and with more positive substitutions we'd have given ourselves a much better chance of wining it. Be interesting to see what he does tomorrow now. If Kodjia is out does he simply replace him with Davis and keep the rest of the front 6 the same or does he drop Onomah and go with Davis and Hogan up top and really try to exploit Prestons problems at centre back. We are on a very good run at the moment but due to a poor start we are still playing catch up on the top 2 which is where we have to be. The only way we are going to catch them is to win games and when that chance presents itself, as it did on Sunday, we have to be positive and really go for it. All those points you raised are some of the basic reasons why we will go nowhere with Bruce. Time and time again it‘s the same old same old, it‘s not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 13 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: If he was behind bringing any of these players to the club ,then he his going to be held accountable if and when they don't perform . That is just the nature of the beast . Okay, so you hold him personally responsible when passes go astray? Or when someone gets tackled, or misses and open goal or gives away a penalty, that's the Managers fault in your world? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 12 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said: For agreeing with you? For talking sense, something severely lacking in some quarters here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 12 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: talking sense, something severely lacking in some quarters here. I agree with this^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Okay, so you hold him personally responsible when passes go astray? Or when someone gets tackled, or misses and open goal or gives away a penalty, that's the Managers fault in your world? A lot of those things can be attributed to confidence and morale of individual players and the team as a whole. Some of it could also be attributed to a game plan that isn't working or players who are not responding to a manager's directions. It's a manager's responsibility to get those things right. Absolutely a manager can be responsible to a degree for mistakes and skill errors -- how much is debatable and subjective. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 16 minutes ago, Michael118 said: A lot of those things can be attributed to confidence and morale of individual players and the team as a whole. Some of it could also be attributed to a game plan that isn't working or players who are not responding to a manager's directions. It's a manager's responsibility to get those things right. Absolutely a manager can be responsible to a degree for mistakes and skill errors -- how much is debatable and subjective. Perhaps Accountable is a better word than responsible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, hippo said: Perhaps Accountable is a better word than responsible. Accountable or indirectly responsible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: Okay, so you hold him personally responsible when passes go astray? Or when someone gets tackled, or misses and open goal or gives away a penalty, that's the Managers fault in your world? But the opposite is true. If kodjia hits that shot an inch lower, his individual moment of brilliance gets 3 points and Bruce would get the credit for the 3 points and the win. I don't think he can be responsible for every individual action that happens on the pitch, but as manager and coach he is responsible for how they mainly perform over a 90 minute game. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 27 minutes ago, DCJonah said: But the opposite is true. If kodjia hits that shot an inch lower, his individual moment of brilliance gets 3 points and Bruce would get the credit for the 3 points and the win. I don't think he can be responsible for every individual action that happens on the pitch, but as manager and coach he is responsible for how they mainly perform over a 90 minute game. I doubt that based on how the game went but I see where you are coming from. I still don't think a point against fierce rivals at their ground is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 hours ago, markavfc40 said: The issue I have is that the last 15 minutes of the first half we were doing nothing going forward and Onomah was totally anonymous. The brave thing to do, or at the least the attacking thing to do, would have been to bring Davis on for Onomah and go with a 4-4-2 and really take the game to Sha. Instead we waited until over an hour before making a change and that was hardly a positive one despite Jedinak making a decent impact. I'd have loved to have seen how Sha would handle Davis and Kodjia through the middle as personally I don't hink they woudl have coped. That game was there to be won and with more positive substitutions we'd have given ourselves a much better chance of wining it. Be interesting to see what he does tomorrow now. If Kodjia is out does he simply replace him with Davis and keep the rest of the front 6 the same or does he drop Onomah and go with Davis and Hogan up top and really try to exploit Prestons problems at centre back. We are on a very good run at the moment but due to a poor start we are still playing catch up on the top 2 which is where we have to be. The only way we are going to catch them is to win games and when that chance presents itself, as it did on Sunday, we have to be positive and really go for it. I was quite suprised Davis didn't start and then even more suprised how long it took for him to come on. The game was crying out for physical players. They bullied us first half. Saying that Im not sure how fit Jed is so was pleased to see him bought on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post striker Posted October 31, 2017 Visiting Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) Starting off on a positive note concerning Bruce he has made some astute signings for not a lot of money and improved Villa defensively. I was against Villa signing Terry and didn’t think due to his age he would be able to stand up to the rigours of the Championship nor play enough games to warrant his mooted wages. I was wrong on both counts due to Terry proving to be one of the main reasons why Villa have improved defensively. That being said I still feel, watching Villa, that there is so much more to Villa’s squad than we’re actually seeing at the moment. For instance when Bruce played Hourihane further forward in his correct position there was a stark improvement in performance and goal return.That has been nullified once again by Bruce reverting to ultra defensive mode against a very poor Birmingham City side. When OHare was given his chance he excelled yet dropped back into the U21s. Davis should have started against Birmingham and that was highlighted by how much Villa improved when he finally came on and should have scored. I also don’t think it was the right decision to start Kodjia so quickly. Clearly Kodjia is still struggling for fitness and should have been given more time coming on from the bench rather than starting games. I’m also not sure with the current squad available that Kodjia’s maverick style fits into Bruce’s team. He’s been shoe horned with other players dropping out or changing position to accommodate him. Kodjia isn’t and never will be a team player. For me Bruce is still struggling to find his best team and formation. Considering other teams in the Championship Bruce has an embarrassment of riches available and maybe therein lies the problem? Bruce didn’t have that at his other promotional sides where generally the team picked itself. Many times I have thought to myself this season that there are better players on the bench than actually on the pitch or not even chosen in the match day squad. For many of the reasons stated above I don’t think Villa will achieve automatic promotion this season which is scandalous considering the quality available to Bruce but I do feel despite Bruce’s negative playing style Villa will probably scrape into the lottery of the playoffs. Whether that’s going to be good enough to get Villa back into the Premiership only time will tell? Edited October 31, 2017 by striker 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 14 hours ago, VillaCas said: The problem with this discussion is that the difference between success and failure is extremely small. For me top two is the only acceptable outcome and I don’t believe SB can deliver this - top six leaves us in a lottery which I have no confidence that we have the mentality and approach to win This really is the long and short of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Okay, so you hold him personally responsible when passes go astray? Or when someone gets tackled, or misses and open goal or gives away a penalty, that's the Managers fault in your world? Why even employ a manager then? Why not just do away with this archaic institution since it's all down to the players. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 32 minutes ago, striker said: Starting off on a positive note concerning Bruce he has made some astute signings for not a lot of money and improved Villa defensively. I was against Villa signing Terry and didn’t think due to his age he would be able to stand up to the rigours of the Championship nor play enough games to warrant his mooted wages. I was wrong on both counts due to Terry proving to be one of the main reasons why Villa have improved defensively. That being said I still feel, watching Villa, that there is so much more to Villa’s squad than we’re actually seeing at the moment. For instance when Bruce played Hourihane further forward in his correct position there was a stark improvement in performance and goal return.That has been nullified once again by Bruce reverting to ultra defensive mode against a very poor Birmingham City side. When OHare was given his chance he excelled yet dropped back into the U21s. Davis should have started against Birmingham and that was highlighted by how much Villa improved when he finally came on and should have scored. I also don’t think it was the right decision to start Kodjia so quickly. Clearly Kodjia is still struggling for fitness and should have been given more time coming on from the bench rather than starting games. I’m also not sure with the current squad available that Kodjia’s maverick style fits into Bruce’s team. He’s been shoe horned with other players dropping out or changing position to accommodate him. Kodjia isn’t and never will be a team player. For me Bruce is still struggling to find his best team and formation. Considering other teams in the Championship Bruce has an embarrassment of riches available and maybe therein lies the problem? Bruce didn’t have that at his other promotional sides where generally the team picked itself. Many times I have thought to myself this season that there are better players on the bench than actually on the pitch or not even chosen in the match day squad. For many of the reasons stated above I don’t think Villa will achieve automatic promotion this season which is scandalous considering the quality available to Bruce but I do feel despite Bruce’s negative playing style Villa will probably scrape into the lottery of the playoffs. Whether that’s going to be good enough to get Villa back into the Premiership only time will tell? Top post agree 100% on every point you have made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Then you must have a pretty shit memory! What was that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 44 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Why even employ a manager then? Why not just do away with this archaic institution since it's all down to the players. Okay, I'm up for it. A lot of clubs don't even have Managers any more, they have first team coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: Okay, I'm up for it. A lot of clubs don't even have Managers any more, they have first team coaches. This would leave Steve Bruce out of a job though as he's more of a (man) manager and not a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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