TRO Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, srsmithusa said: Wait, wait, wait. Are you actually saying that the only reason there’s a disagreement is because the Bruce outers exist? So if we all agreed with you, there would be no problem? So disagreement is not a 2 way street? It’s always the other guys fault? Please tell me you are making a joke. FWIW I did support him until he gave me multiple reasons not to, which happened in Feb for me. I’m delighted with the very recent results, but I think avoiding several obvious errors would have produced these results much earlier. If that makes me the source of all conflict, I’ll just shake my head and laugh. You do realize that if you just agreed with me there would be no conflict, right? but there would still be a criticism of Bruce. You say the HE gave you reasons not to support him, not that you found reasons to not support him. In Feb we was in total disruption, with key players missing and new players coming in.....what a time to choose to judge a man.....you just ooze empathy.....The results were poor but it was no surprise to us despite the disappointment. I think thats where we are at odds, we understood the circumstances, you just dismissed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, TRO said: but there would still be a criticism of Bruce. You say the HE gave you reasons not to support him, not that you found reasons to not support him. In Feb we was in total disruption, with key players missing and new players coming in.....what a time to choose to judge a man.....you just ooze empathy.....The results were poor but it was no surprise to us despite the disappointment. I think thats where we are at odds, we understood the circumstances, you just dismissed them. i didn't dismiss them. I put them in the context of 1) the target he had been given, 2) he had accepted, and 3) how many of those disruptions were things he had done. If he brought in too many new players to bed in at once, HE brought in too many players to bed in at once. If he didn't have a strong enough strike force, HE didn't bring in a strong enough strike force. Those things are a managers job. You seem to see him as the victim of those disruptions, I believe he contributed to each and every one of them. That's not dismissing them, that's holding the man accountable for the job he was brought in to do and the job he accepted. (I may not be remembering correctly, but I think you have cited both the 'too many new players" and the "lack of Kodjia" as some of the disruptions he faced, that's why I use those two examples, there are several others.) You say there would still be criticism of Bruce. But there would also be support for him, too. No matter which of us jumped sides (a pipe dream cause neither of us will) there would still be posters here that disagreed with us. But we would be just as guilty of that contention as they. Arguments are two way streets. Please don't pretend that only one side is destroying the harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 We are on a decent run at the moment, which currently sees us top of the form table and 5 points off the top of the actual table, so I have a straight forward yes or no question for the Bruce Out Now supporters... if getting your preferred progressive manager tomorrow meant he got to build the club in his image, would you willingly sacrifice promotion this season? I know some will say the two elements are not mutually exclusive and I accept that possibility, but I'm asking a very specific hypothetical question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said: We are on a decent run at the moment, which currently sees us top of the form table and 5 points off the top of the actual table, so I have a straight forward yes or no question for the Bruce Out Now supporters... if getting your preferred progressive manager tomorrow meant he got to build the club in his image, would you willingly sacrifice promotion this season? I know some will say the two elements are not mutually exclusive and I accept that possibility, but I'm asking a very specific hypothetical question. I’ll give a hypothetical no. However, it’s not that “some will see the two elements are not mutually exclusive.” It’s a fact that The two are clearly not mutually exclusive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Bruce is now doing pretty much what it says on the tin. Hard to beat, not the most attractive football, but challenging at the right end of the table. It's taken him a while, but it's hard to understate just how bad the mess was that he inherited. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 13 hours ago, blandy said: It was a request, thus he forgot the question mark rather than a full stop. I cannot believe as well as a moderation department Villa talk has now formed a loophole department 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxahunter Posted October 5, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 5, 2017 8 hours ago, villianusa said: Which are the players you are referring to? And he said he recently, he wanted to make our defense more difficult to beat and that does sometimes lead to less entertaining football. I believe he has finally achieved that and hopefully we can continue to improve in attacking areas. He had, just to name the ones he is using now, Sam Johnstone, James Chester, Alan Hutton, Adomah, Bree, Grealish, Jedinak, Green, McCormack, Kodija and bought Hogan, Hourihane, Lansbury, plus other players he has been using occasionally. He also had Amavi, Baker, Tshibola, and in my opinion, that is still a team that should be challenging for promotion and be able to play exciting football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, srsmithusa said: i didn't dismiss them. I put them in the context of 1) the target he had been given, 2) he had accepted, and 3) how many of those disruptions were things he had done. If he brought in too many new players to bed in at once, HE brought in too many players to bed in at once. If he didn't have a strong enough strike force, HE didn't bring in a strong enough strike force. Those things are a managers job. You seem to see him as the victim of those disruptions, I believe he contributed to each and every one of them. That's not dismissing them, that's holding the man accountable for the job he was brought in to do and the job he accepted. (I may not be remembering correctly, but I think you have cited both the 'too many new players" and the "lack of Kodjia" as some of the disruptions he faced, that's why I use those two examples, there are several others.) You say there would still be criticism of Bruce. But there would also be support for him, too. No matter which of us jumped sides (a pipe dream cause neither of us will) there would still be posters here that disagreed with us. But we would be just as guilty of that contention as they. Arguments are two way streets. Please don't pretend that only one side is destroying the harmony. I agree arguments are two way streets. Everyone is entitled to criticise the point is whether the criticism is fair. Thats an opinion. I just take the stance that with so many factors and variables, i choose to take the rough with the smooth.....i take it as read, any manager will make mistakes and the severity of those mistakes will be in the hands of the critic....but it is just their opinion. i still am of the opinion, anyone who favours someone in a general sense, will find empathy in their appraisal of them.....anyone who is reluctant to cut slack will be pedantic in their appraisal. We either favour him or we don't is my opinion. thats why we find this subject difficult to agree on. Edited October 5, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 9 hours ago, Lerner's Driver said: We are on a decent run at the moment, which currently sees us top of the form table and 5 points off the top of the actual table, so I have a straight forward yes or no question for the Bruce Out Now supporters... if getting your preferred progressive manager tomorrow meant he got to build the club in his image, would you willingly sacrifice promotion this season? I know some will say the two elements are not mutually exclusive and I accept that possibility, but I'm asking a very specific hypothetical question. If Bruce continues to get results the heat will be off him and we will all be happy if it ends in promotion . promotion is the be all and end all this season whoever is manager . Alhough encouraged with recent weeks I’m not totally convinced we have turned the corner ; the 3 games this month will tell us far more . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Lerner's Driver said: We are on a decent run at the moment, which currently sees us top of the form table and 5 points off the top of the actual table, so I have a straight forward yes or no question for the Bruce Out Now supporters... if getting your preferred progressive manager tomorrow meant he got to build the club in his image, would you willingly sacrifice promotion this season? I know some will say the two elements are not mutually exclusive and I accept that possibility, but I'm asking a very specific hypothetical question. Promotion is all that matters this season. Hopefully at some point we will get to a league position that makes it a possibility 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 19 hours ago, blandy said: It was a request, thus he forgot the question mark rather than a full stop. If he had put a question mark does that not mean we have a choice whether or not to follow the request? Edited October 5, 2017 by sexbelowsound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, briny_ear said: You'll owe him - and all of us - much more than just a half time drink, young whippersnapper. and alternatively, what will you ALL owe me? PS GH no WS - GH older than BE Edited October 5, 2017 by Grasshopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Eastie said: If Bruce continues to get results the heat will be off him and we will all be happy if it ends in promotion . promotion is the be all and end all this season whoever is manager . Alhough encouraged with recent weeks I’m not totally convinced we have turned the corner ; the 3 games this month will tell us far more . This is it for me. It's having us up there in the top 3/4 places that is the only thing that is going to keep the pressure off Bruce over the season. Anyone who thinks we'd be better off cutting our losses now might not have to wait that long for it to come to fruition. Have a good month now and they still might not have to wait too long. Repeat that until we are up or he is gone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 5, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 5, 2017 30 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: If he had put a question mark does that not mean we have choice whether or not to follow the request? Yes, of course it does. Choose wisely, my friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 On 04/10/2017 at 01:25, briny_ear said: I don't think you've been looking very hard then. Show me a post of someone that is unhappy that we have won. Specifically that they are unhappy that we have won. I bet you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) On 03/10/2017 at 23:03, TRO said: But can you explain.....what has last season got to do with this season... its gone and the opinions on it, with it. It has no bearing on this season at all.....why bring it up? good, bad or indifferent....its irrelevant now. The relevance is that you look for trends and improvements. You analyse results and performances to see how you are doing over a period of time, and you chose a longer time period to rule out anomalous results and luck (good or bad) Up until the last few games there had been no improvement in performances. That's the relevance. If you are discounting the last season's performances because they are done, gone, in the past, then you must also discount the fabled four promotions on the same basis. Edited October 5, 2017 by TheStagMan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 On 04/10/2017 at 11:47, VILLAMARV said: If those 7 words and a comma weren't there I'd have liked that. Good post though. What's was wrong with those seven words, and the comma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 On 04/10/2017 at 13:35, TRO said: I accept that is your stance.....but not all Bruce bashers share the same opinion. There are more than one camp within a camp. some are genuinly driven by the standard of football on show and will alter their view on him accordingly. some just don't like him and will find any angle to distort events to make their argument credible against him. If someone had the conkers to say i just don't like/ rate him and never will.....i would at least give them credit for honesty, but in the main they just try to formulate agendas to justify their despise. I think you will find 99% of the anti Bruce posters on here are in the first camp. I read very few posts that I would attribute to someone from the second camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 On 03/10/2017 at 11:55, TRO said: Blimey not this again. ......last season was a major rectification job.....from a 6 year decline......what part don't you get? Hasn't taken Warnock a year to sort out his major rectification job! sorry but that is a poor excuse for poor management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 20 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: I just think it's sad, a sorry state of affairs and in all honesty, it's been a part of the problem that is Aston Villa FC over the past 6 or so years, in my opinion. Woah woah, hold on there, you are blaming THE FANS for the poor performance of the club over the last six years???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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