sne Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: 35 games worth of jobbies is a big job. And all we got after all that huffin and puffin was some blue smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, terrytini said: I change my overall opinion depending on the overall picture and on balance I think Bruce should stay. I change my micro- opinions depending upon the last thought I had !! I have been married for over 40 years so my mico opinions can change from my overall opinion. Her first touch is good, she has passion and desire , not good in the hair......she has vision( married me), but does'nt take instruction well....tends to do her own thing. A good pre-season and I think she will be ok Edited May 12, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 hour ago, terrytini said: I've said repeatedly I see merit on both sides and agree with much of this - however ( in my view) although I said we got rid of RDM too soon I do recall his last few games we were looking increasingly confused and ramshackle. Whereas with Bruce, whilst I have major issues over his tactics, we were arguably reasonably stable. Not a ringing endorsement (so the Pro Bruce might not like it) but not a total write off (so the anti Bruce might not like it lol). I think the problem for me is that we looked much worse, over a much longer period of time, under Bruce than under Di Matteo. I'm not sure if Di Matteo would have been sacked, and Bruce would have subsequently kept his job, if it wasn't for us hiring Steve Round. It doesn't sit well with me that, at least in my eyes, there's an element of "jobs for the boys" going on at the club, no matter how well qualified those "boys" are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 hours ago, BOF said: If I may squash a myth for a moment. We only let 3 goals in all season after the 80th minute once Bruce turned up. In 35 games, 3 goals. Leeds 90th min Forest 90th min Ipswich 83rd min In comparison we scored 9. How many did we concede after 80 under RDM in 11 games? 6 goals. **** 6. I'm not sure what was a myth. I said we let in late goals under RDM. And that we played some good stuff and dominated games. I don't believe we were an absolute basket case/mess when Bruce came in. I don't think he had a ridiculous job on his hands. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted May 12, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 hours ago, KSV said: I agree to an extent.. but isnt it amazing how one brand of football got more results than the other. If only we could find a happy medium. Di Matteo just needed to tweak his line ups.. was just too gung ho at times.. even when we got to the lead.. he should have made smarter subs to keep the result.. he never did. Yeah, I'd agree. Thinking back it's so frustrating. That late goal against forest, those mistakes against Wednesday and Huddersfield. We were so close to being in that top 6 near the top. That's why I don't buy into this idea that Bruce came into a complete wreck. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 5 hours ago, BOF said: Can I ask what you're getting at with this point in particular? I see it brought up quite regularly and I always find it quite curious. The underlying accusation seems to be 'zomg we finished even further behind them than we started'. But actually, in order to finish closer to them than we started, we'd have to have had better results over 35 games than the eventual champions did or the eventual runners up did. Which is a bit mental really. Another way of putting it might be that after 11 games we were 11pts behind Brighton which is a drift of one point per game. We ended up 31 off them over 46 games which is a drift of 2/3rds of a point per game. If we're going to get promoted then we need to do a hell of a lot better than falling behind by 21 points over 35 games. If we're top 2 material we should have turned 7 losses into wins. If we're play off material than we needed to pick up 4 points more than Fulham over 35 games. Think you might have just got the wrong end of the stick on what I was trying to say. Im not saying we should have finished closer, just that we were not far away at all really and at the very least just about keeping up the pace would have shown we could compete next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 hours ago, TRO said: Well as consistency is a major component in a players ability......we can watch with interest in his performances. He's always been a consistent player but we'll see how it unfolds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 12, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 12, 2017 41 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I'm not sure what was a myth. I said we let in late goals under RDM. And that we played some good stuff and dominated games. I don't believe we were an absolute basket case/mess when Bruce came in. I don't think he had a ridiculous job on his hands. No not you. It's just a general feeling that we habitually concede late goals. I found it interesting that we actually don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 8 hours ago, Mjvilla said: A lot of bad signings again last summer. Sorry to single you out like this because you're not the only one saying it. If there is one "myth" on this thread that needs squashing, this is it. Di Matteo had an excellent transfer window, did some fantastic business and he can hardly be blamed for Ross McCormack having personal issues and going off the boil. I would go as far as to say there were no bad signings last summer without hindsight to guide opinion. The outgoings were almost universally applauded too and the only critism would be that we didn't bring in more midfielders. We were after more than we signed so it might have been Di Matteo's intention to bring more in but he was left empty handed. Bruce came into a side that was short on midfield players. He now has some of the best in the league and in 5 months has, if anything, made us look like a worse team scrapping for results against everybody in the league. The performances were poor, then they got worse and so did the results. That is of no fault to the players brought in over the summer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Michael118 Posted May 12, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 12, 2017 I have to say I don't buy that we're more stable under Bruce or that he's steadied the ship. We are in the Championship against lower quality opposition and performing abysmally. Every time I've seen us play we look lackluster. The last game was better but was more than likely an exception. The late goals have stopped but how much of it is due to a change of mentality and how much is it due to Bruce's ultra negative tactics? For me his tactics have papered over the cracks. Our record without Jedinak and our record away from home after conceding would point towards that as well. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 8 hours ago, TRO said: but to be fair GH, who would have ever thought Ron Saunders would do what he did. There is a fair amount of luck in it. If you look back at RS record you will see he did a progressive job everywhere before he came to us. So 1 of 2 things were going to happen. We won the league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 7 hours ago, TRO said: I would suspect there are enough football people around villa park now to know, if we are treading water or the job is slowly coming together.....They should know the difference When Round & Wyness recommend David Moyes after DrT pulls the trigger on Bruce, what will you think of the "football people" then? Bruce in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: When Round & Wyness recommend David Moyes after DrT pulls the trigger on Bruce, what will you think of the "football people" then? Bruce in? If they recommend David Moyes as Villa manager I'll join the Round & Wyness out camp. Can't see it though. Edited May 12, 2017 by TB Typo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 We have offensive players, but we play conservatively. We don't have an even balance in the team, and need better options on the bench (we actually had some but sold them). We need a settled team which we haven't had in years, but might have next season. Last year we were really rotten and made lots of changes, we really had to. There was a moment this season when I actually thought we might get relegated again, but that has passed and it now doesn't look close, in fact we look solid enough but lacking any pattern or threat (we had more threat under RDM). It just needs to click, we have the personnel. Bruce has a lot to do, and quickly, and he needs to kick on or he will be finished in the game if he can't work with the most resources he's had in his career, in a league he has a high reputation in. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 4 hours ago, DCJonah said: Yeah, I'd agree. Thinking back it's so frustrating. That late goal against forest, those mistakes against Wednesday and Huddersfield. We were so close to being in that top 6 near the top. That's why I don't buy into this idea that Bruce came into a complete wreck. Indeed. In a way I think RDM was similar to Keegan at Newcastle. It was all about 'touchy-feely let them play' which, had the blue touch paper lit, might have been exciting and/ or interesting......but there was little of the nuts and bolts stuff needed when things don't work ( again, a la Keegan). Now we have more in the way of nuts and bolts but only damp squibs ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I don't think he'd necessarily be finished in the game as such - there will always be some Championship club looking for a manager able to grind out results, no matter how boring the playing style might be. But he'd definitely be ruled out as a top tier manager. He claimed he had waited 20 years for a job like this. I'm sure he'd love to get us promoted, stay on as Villa manager and developing a more attacking playing style with the players available to him. Not sure he (or his coaches?) has the ablity, though. I have a hunch that the board have decided on a playing style, and have brought in players according to their vision, presumably with the manager's approval. (If SB didn't agree, I think he'd have walked by now - unless the thought of being the Villa manager is too tempting after 20 years in the wilderness. Hopefully, he has more integrity than that.) If he did disagree he should already have been replaced by now. No more Sherwood "I've scouted them for years/ they weren't my signings!" malarky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 5 hours ago, DCJonah said: I'm not sure what was a myth. I said we let in late goals under RDM. And that we played some good stuff and dominated games. I don't believe we were an absolute basket case/mess when Bruce came in. I don't think he had a ridiculous job on his hands. There was still a massive losing culture at the club when he came in. Following on from the disastrous last prem season we won 1 of our first 12 championship games and also went out of the league cup in terrible fashion. A lax summer transfer campaign didn't help either. We hardly shifted anyone out and it took ages for us to sign anyone decent as we started the Sheff Weds game with just Gollini, Elphick, Tishbola and McCormack as signings. Obviously McCormack just hasn't worked out but the other three look laughable now in thinking they were going to get us promoted. So he came in to all this. Now I'm not saying he's been brilliant but we were still on life support compared to many other clubs when he turned up. The away form has remained a disaster and we have no chance of going up until that is solved but at least we've made VP a tough place to come for visitors to get three points again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 4 hours ago, skarroki said: Sorry to single you out like this because you're not the only one saying it. If there is one "myth" on this thread that needs squashing, this is it. Di Matteo had an excellent transfer window, did some fantastic business and he can hardly be blamed for Ross McCormack having personal issues and going off the boil. I would go as far as to say there were no bad signings last summer without hindsight to guide opinion. The outgoings were almost universally applauded too and the only critism would be that we didn't bring in more midfielders. We were after more than we signed so it might have been Di Matteo's intention to bring more in but he was left empty handed. Bruce came into a side that was short on midfield players. He now has some of the best in the league and in 5 months has, if anything, made us look like a worse team scrapping for results against everybody in the league. The performances were poor, then they got worse and so did the results. That is of no fault to the players brought in over the summer. You're joking aren't you? Gollini was an inexperienced keeper coming into english football, logic would say you get in an experienced keeper who knew the championship. Tishbola had played the grand total of 20 games for Reading and was being massively overrated. Elphick again got hyped just for his supposed leadership skills. Yes Chester and then eventually Jedinak and Kodjia turned up but this was all after the season had started, we'd already played I think 6 games until Jedi and Kodjia had signed. I thought it was a really lax summer transfer window so we really need to be on the ball much more now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 12 hours ago, skarroki said: Sorry to single you out like this because you're not the only one saying it. If there is one "myth" on this thread that needs squashing, this is it. Di Matteo had an excellent transfer window, did some fantastic business and he can hardly be blamed for Ross McCormack having personal issues and going off the boil. I would go as far as to say there were no bad signings last summer without hindsight to guide opinion. The outgoings were almost universally applauded too and the only critism would be that we didn't bring in more midfielders. We were after more than we signed so it might have been Di Matteo's intention to bring more in but he was left empty handed. Bruce came into a side that was short on midfield players. He now has some of the best in the league and in 5 months has, if anything, made us look like a worse team scrapping for results against everybody in the league. The performances were poor, then they got worse and so did the results. That is of no fault to the players brought in over the summer. But we can use hindsight now because it's happened and the proof of the pudding was in the eating. Tshibola failed. Elphick has struggled. Gollini isn't here anymore. As you rightly said McCormack has been a huge failure. kodjia, Chester, Adomah and jedinak have been good signings. So, a 50% success rate. I think to say that it's a myth that there were bad signings last summer because we're aren't allowed to use hindsight is very narrow minded because we can only judge signings on what they've done for avfc. In my opinion, it is not a myth that we made a lot of bad signings, it's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 10 hours ago, Grasshopper said: When Round & Wyness recommend David Moyes after DrT pulls the trigger on Bruce, what will you think of the "football people" then? Bruce in? This is the most laughable, ridiculous post I've ever read on this site. And I read spitgate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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