TRO Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 12 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: He's getting support mate. Nobody at the ground is calling for his head, the crowd haven't 'turned' as such. I have supported him, in the last few pages in fact and have disagreed with him strongly at other times. The bit in bold, I think you're talking to somebody else here. I have made my point perfectly clear and fairly precise, across a series of posts, and at no point have I said that he's crap or resulted to insults. Nor have I been nonchalant about it, though I do feel fairly relaxed. I have't been on Villa talk much over the last few weeks, though I can tell from this post alone that the lines have been drawn. I've obviously been placed over the 'other' side. My apologies Dave if the cap doesn't fit. I think the problem for guys like me, Mark, Eastie and you from what your saying is.....None of us are happy with the football, the performances or the results, lets hope Saturday was a turn for the better. It seems to me where we are at odds is the size of the task.....some fans think it should be fixed by now and fact that it isn't is down to Bruce.....others like me think he needs more time and more latitude. The fact remains that NONE of us know how long this should take, because we have not got a complete grip of the size of it or in fact what it fully entails. I am well aware that time alone is no answer, but when someone is trying to fix something it is a reasonable request. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, AshVilla said: With the recent losses incurred by the club i think the club really need to have a long hard think in the summer if Bruce is the man to get us promoted next season. If we don't get promoted were screwed. If we got promoted with this standard of football, we would be screwed in a different way....we would come straight back down....This team at present is some distance away from promotion form. We will only go up when we are ready.....and we are not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) On 26/02/2017 at 11:03, mikeyp102 said: That win effectively made us safe from relegation. Therefore now is an extended pre season. It gives the new players the chance to learn villa park, get used to playing under the large crowd, get used to each other and get a style of play. If that happens we should then only need a couple additions in the summer without having to totally rebuild a team again. Hopefully then we should start next season on fire. What a massively positive view on things!! One scrambled win and everything is good??? I tell you what, with 39 points still to play for and only 8 points above the drop it's very dangerous thinking to believe we are now safe from the drop Edited February 27, 2017 by VillaCas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Grasshopper said: Had the ref given it : 1) yellow/red card? 2) Derby score/miss? So what would have happened in those senarios Pen given - Derby Score? - Derby miss? Villa 0-1-3 pts? What if the ref had given our penalty shout before that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post striker Posted February 27, 2017 Visiting Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Eastie said: Biggest mistakes for me were bringing in Johnstone and not lining up at least a loan replacement for kodija- it was foolish to rely on gabby and we all knew that . Those mistakes have cost us several points in my view. regarding the transfer window he has recruited very well but not really been able to field a settled team with jedinak out for weeks and injuries to bree , hourihane and hogan - until he gets his preferred team and formation it's hard to judge how things will progress - he has the players now and has got to produce results - he seems to want to go with 442 but without hogan is going to have to go another route - I'm intrigued to see how these 2 games pan out as a couple of decisive wins would go a long way to rebuilding confidence - however a nervy scrappy affair tomorrow will leave many unhappy again . Yeah no doubt about it he has made what I would term basic managerial mistakes not befitting his so called experience. Bruce has continually stated that the players have to get used to playing for Villa but just maybe the manager has also had a few jitters as well because Villa is the biggest club he has managed so far and there is a lot of pressure on him due to expectation. I certainly don't think the expectation was as high as his other clubs. He just needs to take the shackles of the players a bit more with Jedinak back and trust in his new midfield signings to do what they do best. I've made this point so many times before but he is paying far too much respect to the opposition who have been generally poor. Edited February 27, 2017 by striker 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA_Villa Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Leicester are 2-0 up against Liverpool. Who said a change of manager never works? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 27, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2017 37 minutes ago, USA_Villa said: Leicester are 2-0 up against Liverpool. Who said a change of manager never works? Nobody. Ever. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted February 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 27, 2017 I have a plan for guaranteed promotion. Every manager has a honeymoon period, including Bruce. Let's just change managers every 10 games and be on a permanent new-manager bounce. Easy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, TRO said: My apologies Dave if the cap doesn't fit. I think the problem for guys like me, Mark, Eastie and you from what your saying is.....None of us are happy with the football, the performances or the results, lets hope Saturday was a turn for the better. It seems to me where we are at odds is the size of the task.....some fans think it should be fixed by now and fact that it isn't is down to Bruce.....others like me think he needs more time and more latitude. The fact remains that NONE of us know how long this should take, because we have not got a complete grip of the size of it or in fact what it fully entails. I am well aware that time alone is no answer, but when someone is trying to fix something it is a reasonable request. Not to be funny again TRO but I'm not a part of any group either. I'm completely on the fence with Bruce. The first dozen games, great. The last 10, very poor indeed. Would I be horrified or disgusted or even mildly annoyed if we were to lose tomorrow and he be sacked? No. Am I happy to give him more time on the basis that we've got absolutely nothing to play for right now? Yes. I also look to his past and hope that the last 10 games are an anomaly, that he took way too long to arrest but arrest it he has. Again, I hope. Am I able to step outside of that overall opinion and judge aspects of his management on their own merit? I hope so. I like the way he values and utilises Jedinak, I like his faith in Green, I like most of his signings. I liked the way he came in, solidified the side, set them up to play and win ugly. It's exactly what I expected and I kinda like watching it. I admire his ethos as I have always admired his teams. There's lots of things I don't like too, clearly, but to set the record straight I'm not 'anti-Bruce', I'm merely pro Aston Villa. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 44 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Not to be funny again TRO but I'm not a part of any group either. I'm completely on the fence with Bruce. The first dozen games, great. The last 10, very poor indeed. Would I be horrified or disgusted or even mildly annoyed if we were to lose tomorrow and he be sacked? No. Am I happy to give him more time on the basis that we've got absolutely nothing to play for right now? Yes. I also look to his past and hope that the last 10 games are an anomaly, that he took way too long to arrest but arrest it he has. Again, I hope. Am I able to step outside of that overall opinion and judge aspects of his management on their own merit? I hope so. I like the way he values and utilises Jedinak, I like his faith in Green, I like most of his signings. I liked the way he came in, solidified the side, set them up to play and win ugly. It's exactly what I expected and I kinda like watching it. I admire his ethos as I have always admired his teams. There's lots of things I don't like too, clearly, but to set the record straight I'm not 'anti-Bruce', I'm merely pro Aston Villa. Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 5 hours ago, KHV said: Thats a big worry for me, nobody plays 4-4-2 and we dont really have the players to play 4-4-2. Anyone that plays 4-4-2 loses out in the middle of the park, we are not very good in the middle of the park.Also we have no real wingers and the the fullbacks are dodgy all round so there is no width. 4-4-2 is outdated, 4-4-2 with this squad even when they are fully fit is suicidal. If 4-4-2 is his plan for the future then he really does need to be replaced How the **** is 4-4-2 outdated? Didn't our current English champions play 4-4-2 the majority of the time last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) I still think that when done properly, 4-4-2 is one of the better formations out there. The problem is that the game has changed to the extent where this formation is no longer feasible for the most part. There has been, in particular, an explosion in central midfielders who can "only play in a 3" and the second striker is also a bit of a dying art in the conventional sense (many of them are started on the left hand side). There are more forwards now who are more comfortable playing the lone role (as opposed to in a two) than ever. Edited February 28, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Said it before, 4-4-2 is probably the hardest formation to be successful with in today's football. (OK the 8-2-0 A'la McLeish or the 0-9-1 under Sherwood is probably even harder) You need to have at least one player doing more or less the job of two players in midfield. Leicester had Kanté who played out of his skin. They also had Mahrez on the flank who handled the creative bit and was a focus point when they opted to keep the ball rather than quickly finding Vardy who scored from everything. It's too simplistic to say that as soon as Kanté left they where screwed, but is it painfully obvious how much they miss him. We don't currently have any of the type of players needed to play the modern more dynamic version of 4-4-2 IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Two things I want changed tonight... 1) When the opposition have a corner, leave a man up front! If you haven't noticed this yet just watch tonight, we basically invite their entire team into our box to have a go at goal. Then when we eventually clear the ball it goes straight back to them to hit us once again... 2) Everyone moving to one tiny area of the pitch when we have a goal kick. It's crazy, actual Sunday League stuff. Why not leave your wingers out wide for a quick break. Again we invite the opposition into the area that they now know the goal kick is heading to. There are obviously numerous other things I would change, but these two are so simple its completely beyond me why we are doing them game after game. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 minute ago, wilko154 said: Two things I want changed tonight... 1) When the opposition have a corner, leave a man up front! If you haven't noticed this yet just watch tonight, we basically invite their entire team into our box to have a go at goal. Then when we eventually clear the ball it goes straight back to them to hit us once again... 2) Everyone moving to one tiny area of the pitch when we have a goal kick. It's crazy, actual Sunday League stuff. Why not leave your wingers out wide for a quick break. Again we invite the opposition into the area that they now know the goal kick is heading to. There are obviously numerous other things I would change, but these two are so simple its completely beyond me why we are doing them game after game. 3) When we have a throw in, at least some of our players should act with a bit of urgency and at least pretend like they wan't the ball. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted February 28, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: There has been, in particular, an explosion in central midfielders who can "only play in a 3" This is a massive misrepresentation. The explosion has been in teams playing a 3 man central midfield, a consequence of which is that central midfielders now need to be better to play in a 2 man midfield, because it often means you're up against an extra man. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 18 hours ago, striker said: Yeah no doubt about it he has made what I would term basic managerial mistakes not befitting his so called experience. Bruce has continually stated that the players have to get used to playing for Villa but just maybe the manager has also had a few jitters as well because Villa is the biggest club he has managed so far and there is a lot of pressure on him due to expectation. I certainly don't think the expectation was as high as his other clubs. He just needs to take the shackles of the players a bit more with Jedinak back and trust in his new midfield signings to do what they do best. I've made this point so many times before but he is paying far too much respect to the opposition who have been generally poor. He has actually including himself in his criticisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: This is a massive misrepresentation. The explosion has been in teams playing a 3 man central midfield, a consequence of which is that central midfielders now need to be better to play in a 2 man midfield, because it often means you're up against an extra man. in the old 4-4-2.....it was very much a game of 2's's's's (as keith lemon would say) 2 full backs 2 CB's 2 Dms ( or with DM capability) 2 AM's ( usually wingers) 2 strikers ( one perhaps a leader of the line, the other an old style inside forward) thats where the little partnerships developed......of course tactics came in and the opposition strengths and weaknesses, determined some sort of manipulation to that line up accordingly hence the modern day line -ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Rubbish time for the site to go down! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Still not a fan of his, but that wont stop me celebrating these wins and acknowledging that the two last games have yielded better results. way to go 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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