Steve Bruce

[markavfc40]

6 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

You see what I'm saying though Mark, it all appears to be a bit of a mess. I would have more faith than I do if I had seen more consistency. As it is, I'm firmly on the fence as to whether I want him leading the charge next season or not. 

I am actually surprised with Bruce as he has never struck me as a tinker man who would switch systems and change 3 or 4 players every game. If anything I expected the opposite.

I am therefore at the moment giving him the benefit of the doubt in that he first inherited an unbalanced squad and was trying to find a system and the right players to get the best out of it. Then off the back of a decent run January came and we lost our main goal scorer and Ayew to AFCON, took advantage of Boro coming in for Gestede and had McCormack playing silly bastards, RHM getting ideas above his station and we went from an abundance of riches up top to Gabby. Then we saw another big overhaul in personnel and he is now trying to integrate up to half a dozen players into the team.

I do think he knows what he is doing and does have a set system and formation he wants to use. We do though need to see that before the end of the season and it needs to come with some positive results and improved performances.

Edited February 27, 2017 by markavfc40

[Vive_La_Villa]

25 minutes ago, sne said:

All better than Gabby thou.

Maybe non of them wanted to play for the club?

[sne]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Maybe non of them wanted to play for the club?

Point is you bring in another forward, on loan if necessary so you don't have to rely on Gabby.

Who I'm not sure want's to play football at all anymore. 

[TRO]

21 hours ago, av1 said:

And thats another worrying aspect of our play. Forest were another team in terrible form before they played us. 

We aren't just being outplayed by the odd team, we are being outplayed by average teams that are in poor form themselves.  

I can't disagree.

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, sne said:

Point is you bring in another forward, on loan if necessary so you don't have to rely on Gabby.

Who I'm not sure want's to play football at all anymore. 

I guess but I reckon we tried to sign strikers such as Rhodes with no joy. Hence the last minute signing of Hogan.

[BOF]

53 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I agree - but that's because of the 4-3-3.  It requires someone to sit and break up play as the other two (or only one) midfielders (in theory, at least, not with Villa!) need to be higher up the pitch attempting to create and distribute the play.  4-4-2 isn't as reliable on those players, the midfield should be more dynamic and... "flat", for want of a better term.

If I'm picking the central pairing that will work the hardest covering ground, it wouldn't include Jedinak.  If we revert to 3 in the middle at any point, he becomes strangely invaluable.

I was curious as to how accurate my "we need Jedi to win" statement was so I worked it out.  We get 1.45 points per game with him in the side and 0.64 ppg when he's not.  That's the 3rd largest disparity in the squad.  Chester obviously the largest (1.22 v 0.00), given that he's been in for every point and only missed the Wednesday defeat.  Also Gardner (1.63 v 0.57) whose numbers I suspect are improved by (6) substitute appearances meaning he's not quite as vital as his numbers suggest.  But Jedi's stats are all from starts.  FYI, Grealish and Green are at the other end of that table (10 app min).  We get 1.00ppg with Grealish in the side and 1.67ppg when he's not.  For Green it's 0.75 & 1.43.  In Green's defence, 9 of his 12 appearances have been coming off the bench so he wouldn't have been as responsible for the defeats.

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I guess but I reckon we tried to sign strikers such as Rhodes with no joy. Hence the last minute signing of Hogan.

With ayew and kodija away though we should not have let gestede go until we had a replacement .

we relied on gabby for a month and he was as potent as a stale pork pie.

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

I was curious as to how accurate my "we need Jedi to win" statement was so I worked it out.  We get 1.45 points per game with him in the side and 0.64 ppg when he's not.  That's the 3rd largest disparity in the squad.  Chester obviously the largest (1.22 v 0.00), given that he's been in for every point and only missed the Wednesday defeat.  Also Gardner (1.63 v 0.57) whose numbers I suspect are improved by (6) substitute appearances meaning he's not quite as vital as his numbers suggest.  But Jedi's stats are all from starts.  FYI, Grealish and Green are at the other end of that table.  We get 1.00ppg with Grealish in the side and 1.67ppg when he's not.  For Green it's 0.75 & 1.43.

Interesting stats , somewhat surprised by them .

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I am actually surprised with Bruce as he has never struck me a tinker man who would switch systems and change 3 or 4 players every game. If anything I expected the opposite.

I therefore am at the moment giving him the benefit of the doubt in that he first inherited an unbalanced squad and was trying to find a system and the right players to get the best out of it. Then off the back of a decent run January came and we lost our main goal scorer and Ayew to AFCON, took advantage of Boro coming in for Gestede and had McCormack playing silly bastards, RHM getting ideas above his station and we went from an abundance of riches up top to Gabby. Then we saw another big overhaul in personnel and he is now trying to integrate up to half a dozen players into the team.

I do think he knows what he is doing and does have a set system and formation he wants to use. We do though need to see that before the end of the season and it needs to come with some positive results and improved performances.

I agree Mark.....and just to add to some of that.

SB said he would have played Bacuna due to (in his opinion) a decent performance.....so there is another example of continuity alluding him....Through no fault of his making.....unless of course someone wants to blame Bruce for playing the player in the first place, so it his fault.

Personally, I think this team does not represent a typical Steve Bruce team....so I am quite surprised by much on display as you are.

It will come good or better.

Edited February 27, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

44 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Did we really get rid of 3 strikers?

Yea.....ones that don't score enough.

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, BOF said:

I was curious as to how accurate my "we need Jedi to win" statement was so I worked it out.  We get 1.45 points per game with him in the side and 0.64 ppg when he's not.  That's the 3rd largest disparity in the squad.  Chester obviously the largest (1.22 v 0.00), given that he's been in for every point and only missed the Wednesday defeat.  Also Gardner (1.63 v 0.57) whose numbers I suspect are improved by (6) substitute appearances meaning he's not quite as vital as his numbers suggest.  But Jedi's stats are all from starts.  FYI, Grealish and Green are at the other end of that table.  We get 1.00ppg with Grealish in the side and 1.67ppg when he's not.  For Green it's 0.75 & 1.43.  In Green's defence, 9 of his 12 appearances have been coming off the bench so he wouldn't have been as responsible for the defeats.

Jed has been a massive player for us ever since Bruce came in as he has been allowed to sit in front of the defence with 2 midfielders in front of him.  I honestly believe had he not missed the last month or so we wouldn't have lost all those games. 

I also think if RDM had just played him the same way with even Westwood / Gardner in front of him he would probably still be in a job.  Thats how big the change was.

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, Eastie said:

With ayew and kodija away though we should not have let gestede go until we had a replacement .

we relied on gabby for a month and he was as potent as a stale pork pie.

True but Gestede up front was almost like playing with 10 men. He didn't seem interested. At least gabby tried. 

[Eastie]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

True but Gestede up front was almost like playing with 10 men. He didn't seem interested. At least gabby tried. 

Maybe would have worked together though - gabby played his best for us alongside Carew although gestede can only be compared to Carew in height and not ability .

[Grasshopper]

22 hours ago, av1 said:

They should have had a penalty to be fair mate. 

Had the ref given it :

1) yellow/red card?

2) Derby score/miss?

So what would have happened in those senarios

Pen given - Derby Score? - Derby miss?

Villa 0-1-3 pts?

[PieFacE]

3 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

Had the ref given it :

1) yellow/red card?

2) Derby score/miss?

So what would have happened in those senarios

Pen given - Derby Score? - Derby miss?

Villa 0-1-3 pts?

 

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree Mark.....and just to add to some of that.

SB said he would have played Bacuna due to (in his opinion) a decent performance.....so there is another example of continuity alluding him....Through no fault of his making.....unless of course someone wants to blame Bruce for playing the player in the first place, so it his fault.

Personally, I think this team does not represent a typical Steve Bruce team....so I am quite surprised by much on display as you are.

It will come good or better.

It's a bit of a straw man argument though. It's a squad game, injuries and suspensions happen all the time. Every week in fact. It is his job as manager to adapt, it's probably the most important aspect of the job. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug.

[sne]

1 minute ago, PieFacE said:

 

 

You have to be a higher level Operating Thetan to understand it.

Just send money.

[TRO]

45 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Jed has been a massive player for us ever since Bruce came in as he has been allowed to sit in front of the defence with 2 midfielders in front of him.  I honestly believe had he not missed the last month or so we wouldn't have lost all those games. 

I also think if RDM had just played him the same way with even Westwood / Gardner in front of him he would probably still be in a job.  Thats how big the change was.

One of the hardest players to evaluate because individually he is not great.....but you are spot on.

One thing he does do its break up their attacks and wins headers that subsequently gains us valuable ground.

He switches pressure from us, back on to them.....its invaluable.

For sure I would like a Kante , Makelele, Essien  or even a Oliver Dacourt.....but we have what we have.

Ps Stan did a similar job, but went about differently, he was more of a "pick pocket" read the game and intercepted....Jed does more aerial work, but is in a different division where there is more aerial ball to deal with.

We have missed him massively.

 

Edited February 27, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

26 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

It's a bit of a straw man argument though. It's a squad game, injuries and suspensions happen all the time. Every week in fact. It is his job as manager to adapt, it's probably the most important aspect of the job. 

Straw man or not........That was just me picking out One example out , without taxing my brain.

My point simply was, some of these accusations are actually unfounded.....of course he has to adapt to the conditions.....but hold on Dave, its a bit much to simply sweep under the carpet all thats gone on and then nonchalantly say "Its his job as manager to adapt".( we all know that)....sorry, but that comes across like whatever feasible argument is put forward, you just default to .....well he's crap....He's had one window to fix years of shite......come on!

No one is saying Steve Bruce is great, but some of us supporting him during times on the pitch (when we know we could need our heads tested) are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. ......................The job is massive mate.

He gets criticised for tactics......when even the great Eddie Jones was undone on Saturday with a very unusual set of circumstances that was imposed on his team by Italy......But fortunately for Eddie he has great side that could think for themselves and found a part solution during the game.....They won of course, but not so convincingly as expected.

I think Steve Bruce needs a bit of support right now.

If in the longer term it proved that his detractors are right.....then the inevitable happens.

Edited February 27, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

It wasn't so long ago ....Tony Pulis was having his managerial competency questioned by a section of the Albion fans.....was close to have his position considered. ...even Stoke fans having a populist pop too.

Turgid boring football, was the reaction, to the Albion Purists who thought peaks and troughs football before, was entertaining.

I'll bet you could put all the detractors in a Telephone Box ,now.

These things are not fixed overnight.

Edited February 27, 2017 by TRO