Steve Bruce

[bretonvilla]

Both Wagner and Houghton have been mentioned as possible replacements for Bruce , but neither of these two have ever inherited such a pile of dross that Bruce has inherited . Things have gone pear shaped for Hougbton in the past with teams he's constructed himself ,and Wagner is having a decent season at Hudd , but I don't see who could take on this job and get immediate results . We need to realise that what's gone on down there is the biggest slump in English football for years . It really is that big , and rotating managers like we have done will not work ,,,,,,,stabilise then progress . 

[DaveAV1]

8 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Just 2 quick comments taken from the article in The Guardian I referenced just above.

All to close to home at the moment and a major reason why I have no faith that Bruce will come good, he might win enough games to avoid relegation but what we are seeing now is what has been seen before from him and will be seen again when he moves somewhere else. He is not a good manager.

I was going to like this, but it didn't feel appropriate. It just feels very, very worrying. Tony get your gun. 

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, sne said:

In football?

Honestly never heard it used before regarding football.

Football translation.... 'All we can do is go again'

[Tommo_b]

8 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Just 2 quick comments taken from the article in The Guardian I referenced just above.

All to close to home at the moment and a major reason why I have no faith that Bruce will come good, he might win enough games to avoid relegation but what we are seeing now is what has been seen before from him and will be seen again when he moves somewhere else. He is not a good manager.

I respectfully have to disagree with the last sentence, although I didn't want him at the club, to say he is not a good manager would mean he has fluked 4 promotions with teams that aren't really that good.... what are the odds on that?!

We might not like his style, his tactics etc, but to be fair, he has proven he can get the job done on more then 1 occasion. 

[terrytini]

57 minutes ago, TRO said:

Terry, I am just interested, in what you write in condemnation of Steve Bruce.what exactly are you giving him time for.

If you have no belief, he can turn this around,why not have him gone now?

TRO I can't really add I've tried my best. 

I haven't said I've no belief he can turn it round. I haven't condemned anything. Really, I haven't. 

I hope this doesn't sound patronising as I've always enjoyed debating with you but I really think you aren't reading what I've posted.

Unlike many on here and at the matches I DONT think he is useless. I think he is a decent Manager. I don't know how much clearer I can say that.

My point is that like ALL Managers they are successful sometimes, some places, and not others. You are fond of referring to the Saunders era.

He was great for us, does that mean he was great for Blues and Albion ? Of course not.

In my view, having watched us for 20 or so games ( I've missed seeing two away games) I simply see no progress, poor tactics, confused thinking, and a defensive approach.

Thats not condemning him it's saying that's what I've seen. If I had seen something better I would say so.

And in all fairness you haven't been able to say different, the only difference is you believe his past record means you think he will sort it. 

After his opening game against Wolves I said it was garbage and was slated by some saying ' give him time ' .... my response was I'm giving him time but what I saw was garbage.

With a couple of rare exceptions that had remained the case, it's been garbage. And I'm STILL giving him time!!!!! How is that unreasonable ?

And I've tried to explain WHY I would give him time, it's because I think he is a decent Manager and hopefully will see his approach isn't working and will change it.

Not sure how that is a complicated or unreasonable position?

Ive said how I see it- (which is how many others see it which is by the way why you quoting somebody who thinks he should stay is immaterial imo, it's obvious some think stay some think  go).

Ive tried my best several times now to explain my position. 

Maybe we need to sit and have s pint so as I can explain it better !

[peterms]

46 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think it's a given that we are all unimpressed....I've been unimpressed for over 6 years.

There are many opinions, why we are, where we are.

I think knowing the problem and fixing the problem is 2 different things. All managers have to be diplomatic when discussing players.

i have written enough of my opinions in previous posts and no one really knows for certain, nobody's argument is bomb proof.

I am unconvinced the football we are seeing is a direct result of players playing to orders, SB's body language during a game is testimony to that.

while we all want goals, right now I think we have a problem at both ends.

I would be happier with a long term strategy.

Such an approach would involve identifying a promising young manager with a footballing philosophy which suits the club, investing in him, and being patient.

Instead we throw managers at the problem, give them lots of money but fail to support them other than licensing overspending, fall into repetitive cycles of panic spending and cutting back, and then are surprised when we don't succeed.

It doesn't work.  And Xia is just going round the same hamster wheel, with bigger cheques and more tweets, and lots of mouthy bollocks along the way.  I'm not impressed.

[The Fun Factory]

I think Bruce should do a press conference, deny everything, state that we are in the top six, and decry all media outlets are telling fake villa news. 

[DaveAV1]

It's a fact that Bruce has vast experience in this league and knows it inside out. But perhaps we should look at it the other way round. This league knows Steve Bruce inside out and they've got him sussed. They know his style, his strengths and of course his weaknesses. Added to that teams look at us as a big cat to shoot at, they're fired up for every game. Have you seen how teams celebrate when they beat us?

We fail early on to frighten teams, to overawe them. We don't take the game to the opposition. Newcastle have scored loads of goals early in games, they don't give teams chance to settle. They come with the plucky underdog approach and instead of slapping them back down we let their confidence grow. Bruce has always been at plucky underdog teams, he hasn't experienced what it's like from the other side of the fence. It's a different mindset, Rafa knows how to act like a top dog, Bruce doesn't. 

P.S. I can't stand the Fat Spanish Waiter, but you get my point.

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, terrytini said:

TRO I can't really add I've tried my best. 

I haven't said I've no belief he can turn it round. I haven't condemned anything. Really, I haven't. 

I hope this doesn't sound patronising as I've always enjoyed debating with you but I really think you aren't reading what I've posted.

Unlike many on here and at the matches I DONT think he is useless. I think he is a decent Manager. I don't know how much clearer I can say that.

My point is that like ALL Managers they are successful sometimes, some places, and not others. You are fond of referring to the Saunders era.

He was great for us, does that mean he was great for Blues and Albion ? Of course not.

In my view, having watched us for 20 or so games ( I've missed seeing two away games) I simply see no progress, poor tactics, confused thinking, and a defensive approach.

Thats not condemning him it's saying that's what I've seen. If I had seen something better I would say so.

And in all fairness you haven't been able to say different, the only difference is you believe his past record means you think he will sort it. 

After his opening game against Wolves I said it was garbage and was slated by some saying ' give him time ' .... my response was I'm giving him time but what I saw was garbage.

With a couple of rare exceptions that had remained the case, it's been garbage. And I'm STILL giving him time!!!!! How is that unreasonable ?

And I've tried to explain WHY I would give him time, it's because I think he is a decent Manager and hopefully will see his approach isn't working and will change it.

Not sure how that is a complicated or unreasonable position?

Ive said how I see it- (which is how many others see it which is by the way why you quoting somebody who thinks he should stay is immaterial imo, it's obvious some think stay some think  go).

Ive tried my best several times now to explain my position. 

Maybe we need to sit and have s pint so as I can explain it better !

Terry, I too love the banter.

I think where we are at odds is this.

• I am with you results are garbage and performances are arguably worse.
• Where I am not with you is he doesn't want it either, but can't fix it and that is what he is guilty of.....but he is trying to reverse it....but at the moment any changes he makes is not working.

what do we do if he does fix it ,gels the team and gets them playing to his liking.

do we look back and say the football was ok, of course not....because you are right you say what you see...and I am with you on that.

but when we do look back we could say, its all ok now, but we nearly sacked him you know......remember SAF and Mark Robins......and he had more than 4 months.

I Think we are more on the same page as you think.

I just can't convince you he can return to those 8 wins....but we'll get there.

[Villan_of_oz]

11 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

I think Bruce should do a press conference, deny everything, state that we are in the top six, and decry all media outlets are telling fake villa news. 

Villa a part DRPK premier league next season. Could be a league where we could win some matches.  

[TRO]

35 minutes ago, peterms said:

I would be happier with a long term strategy.

Such an approach would involve identifying a promising young manager with a footballing philosophy which suits the club, investing in him, and being patient.

Instead we throw managers at the problem, give them lots of money but fail to support them other than licensing overspending, fall into repetitive cycles of panic spending and cutting back, and then are surprised when we don't succeed.

It doesn't work.  And Xia is just going round the same hamster wheel, with bigger cheques and more tweets, and lots of mouthy bollocks along the way.  I'm not impressed.

I find it difficult to disagree with that.

Alan McInally, writes in tonight B,ham mail, the years of mismanagement.

Tony Pulis says, he is loathe to go and spend enormous amounts despite the Chinese ownership....he says to get one player in would be brill or 2 would be brill.

its easy for others to see our cock ups....Tony is right, just add strategically and in a measured and calculated way....but he had a much better canvas to work with than us.

We are trying to repair, years of mismanagement.....but yes I am with you.

I am hoping Tony reigns it in now.....we just have to fight our way out of this IMO.

we have good players on paper.....its making the gel.

Edited February 17, 2017 by TRO

[srsmithusa]

7 hours ago, BigAl said:

We all need a reality check ,we think we are still a big club unfortunately those days are long gone we have been playing like a poor side for 6 seasons now and haven't won a trophy in 20 years .We have been a joke shop 6 managers in 18 months turnover of over 40 players ,no club will have success with that carry on .We need to build a team the only way we can that is stick with a manager for the time it will take to build a proper side and 20 games and 6 months is nowhere near long enough to do that .I know you make your own luck but we haven't had any this year injuries African nations cup etc we haven't been able to put out our best side at any stage and due to us being poor for so long the pressure is getting to players the fans are weighing heavy on them they are afraid to make mistakes they just get rid of the ball as soon as they get it anywhere will do the only way that will change is confidence and that will only happen with the fans behind the players and manager ,I don't think Bruce is the best manager in the world but he as sure as hell know how to promote a team and he will get us there aswell given the chance we will turn the corner he needs time we will get there I'm positive  we have the right man .

So, be shite but keep a steady course you'll be in champions league soon if you just ignore the shit long enough?

i like my plan better.  

Bruce out !!!!

 

[srsmithusa]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I find it difficult to disagree with that.

Alan McInally, writes in tonight B,ham mail, the years of mismanagement.

Tony Pulis says, he is loathe to go and spend enormous amounts despite the Chinese ownership....he says to get one player in would be brill or 2 would be brill.

its easy for others to see our cock ups....Tony is right, just add strategically and in a measured and calculated way....but he had a much better canvas to work with than us.

We are trying to repair, years of mismanagement.....but yes I am with you.

I am hoping Tony reigns it in now.....we just have to fight our way out of this IMO.

we have good players on paper.....its making the gel.

So, now bruce is failing to succeed because the owner is giving him too much backing.   Wow.  One of us is clutching.  

Edited February 17, 2017 by srsmithusa

[sne]

Stolen from @Davkaus in the relegation thread

These stats corroborate pretty much what I've seen when looking at the games that we are steadily getting worse as a team under Bruce.

 

[kurtsimonw]

Pass accuracy is beyond shocking and that's on the players. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

5 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

Pass accuracy is beyond shocking and that's on the players. 

If you're instructed to play more direct/ back-to-front then the accuracy of passes will almost certainly not be good. I agree that a lot of it is on the players but it's also a function of Bruce's tactics. If we didn't play through the midfield so much the accuracy will probably be a bit higher. 

[mykeyb]

11 hours ago, TRO said:

Have you any quips of the reasons Martin O,Neill, Pete Reid, Roy Keane and David Moyes has made a pigs ear of it too?

Dont see the point you are making sorry. The article would be irrelavant apart from the observations made about his time at Sunderland exactly mirror where we are with him now he is at Villa Park, if you cannot see that then thats not my problem.

[mykeyb]

10 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

I respectfully have to disagree with the last sentence, although I didn't want him at the club, to say he is not a good manager would mean he has fluked 4 promotions with teams that aren't really that good.... what are the odds on that?!

We might not like his style, his tactics etc, but to be fair, he has proven he can get the job done on more then 1 occasion. 

Can you just clarify what his tactics are, what his style of play is. He is not a manager of sufficient quality or nous to take us up. the 41% win ratio from pre-christmas includes the turgid display against Burton Albion where we lucky. Games which we won late on where basically he had to throw the kitchen sink at it and in some games ended up with one midfielder on the pitch, exactly the same thing that RDM was absolutely castigated for. His constant changing of personnel or formation where sometimes the changes to the personnel dont match the change of formation.

Yes he has 4 promotions, how many of those were on the back of relegations. Surely a good manager wouldnt have 4 relegations on his CV, journeyman manager absolutely. 

I expect him to get the sack in the summer hopefully before he gets us relegated again.

[mykeyb]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

I find it difficult to disagree with that.

Alan McInally, writes in tonight B,ham mail, the years of mismanagement.

Tony Pulis says, he is loathe to go and spend enormous amounts despite the Chinese ownership....he says to get one player in would be brill or 2 would be brill.

its easy for others to see our cock ups....Tony is right, just add strategically and in a measured and calculated way....but he had a much better canvas to work with than us.

We are trying to repair, years of mismanagement.....but yes I am with you.

I am hoping Tony reigns it in now.....we just have to fight our way out of this IMO.

we have good players on paper.....its making the gel.

I dont think anyone would disagree that Lerner was an abomination of an owner who crippled the club and had he still been here with Bruce as manager I have no doubt that Bruce would be getting a great deal more licence from fans.

However we have changed the backroom staff, changed and in theory improved the playing staff who up till christmas had got us close to promotion, including an away win on TV against QPR. Its what followed that for me puts a huge question mark against his ability to manage. If we are to really accept that he cannot get the players to play the way he wants then why, and if he cant will he be able to do it next season with a full pre-season behind him.

He needs to change my opinion by getting us to play better football and start to improve results, if he does I will hold my hands up and admit I am wrong, his history as a manager suggests that any improvement might only be marginal and a mid-table or below finish should be met with a swift termination of his rolling contract.

[striker]

20 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I take issue with this.

Not because it's not happening, we do hoof it too much.

But at the insinuation that Bruce is instructing the team to bypass the midfield and hoof it to the forwards.

his fault here is not getting the team to play the way he wants them to. I highly doubt he is instructing his players to play hoof ball. it's just a product of a lack of movement and options.

Putting Lansbury in front of the back four imo is giving license to bypassing the midfield.