Mile Jedinak

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Agreed, the teams towards the top of the table seem to have defensive midfielders who offer more than just defending. The game seems to be evolving beyond having such a narrow specialism in the team. Don't get me wrong, he has been important for us this season, but we're 12th in the **** league, we need more in central midfield. 

From others. Jedinak is doing his bit and then some. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug.

[Nigel]

27 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Based on what? He has barely skipped a beat, he has gotten fitter as the season has wore on. 

For years we have been crying out for a proper decent defensive midfielder. We've not had one since what, Boateng? Within a season we're looking at phasing him out because he's not dynamic enough. 

This thread has gone absolutely bonkers, Jedinak has been a rock and form notwithstanding if we don't have enough ability in Hourihane and Lansbury to allow us that little bit extra protection then I despair at where we go next as a club. Winning those 1-0's is just as important as (hopefully) giving out the occasional trouncing. 

I get what you are saying. I love also the extra security he gives the team.

However that security does come at a cost.

I like him as a player which is why id like to see if we can push him back; But as it is the system we play with him in midfield is too limited, unless the full back situation changed.

If we go a goal down currently its game over, you cant go up with that Achilles heel.

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

5 minutes ago, Nigel said:

I get what you are saying. I love also the extra security he gives the team.

However that security does come at a cost.

I like him as a player which is why id like to see if we can push him back; But as it is the system we play with him in midfield is too limited, unless the full back situation changed.

If we go a goal down currently its game over, you cant go up with that Achilles heel.

 

Surely Hourihane, Lansbury, Adomah, Green and Kodjia are there to provide the forward options? I don't buy that the defensive midfielder system is dead, certainly not if you've enough (potential) ability to compensate. 

He shouldn't play in a 2 man midfield, if that's the conversation?

[Nigel]

4 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Surely Hourihane, Lansbury, Adomah, Green and Kodjia are there to provide the forward options? I don't buy that the defensive midfielder system is dead, certainly not if you've enough (potential) ability to compensate. 

He shouldn't play in a 2 man midfield, if that's the conversation?

The defensive midfielder is not dead, you are right. However the way we use it is far too negative.

Jedinack is more a 3rd defender than someone who will act as a link between the 2 lines.

Its not his fault, its the system Bruce plays with 2 defensive full backs. 

You are right though he couldnt play in a 2 though, this makes us a bit inflexible too.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Nigel said:

The defensive midfielder is not dead, you are right. However the way we use it is far too negative.

Jedinack is more a 3rd defender than someone who will act as a link between the 2 lines.

Its not his fault, its the system Bruce plays with 2 defensive full backs. 

You are right though he couldnt play in a 2 though, this makes us a bit inflexible too.

Certainly, players such as Kante etc are prime examples of this.

[sne]

47 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Certainly, players such as Kante etc are prime examples of this.

If only Jedi had the same mobility Kanté has, he'd be a £60m player.

Well not at his age, but still.

Kanté probably covers more ground warming up than Jedi does during a whole season playing for us in the Championship 

[bobzy]

20 minutes ago, sne said:

If only Jedi had the same mobility Kanté has, he'd be a £60m player.

Well not at his age, but still.

Kanté probably covers more ground warming up than Jedi does during a whole season playing for us in the Championship 

I think it could be this.  Teams successfully operating with a central midfield trio seem to have an energetic player sitting at the base.  Kante, Wanyama, Gueye, Romeu... even the likes of Shelvey and Mooy this season.  Jedinak isn't that player.

 

Edit:  Coupled with this is the distribution of the ball.  Those players work incredibly well because they break up play and pass the ball well afterwards.  It gives the team something to build on (Shelvey probably actually a different player as he doesn't break up play that much).  Jedinak's distribution is poor.

Edited April 27, 2017 by bobzy

[sne]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I think it could be this.  Teams successfully operating with a central midfield trio seem to have an energetic player sitting at the base.  Kante, Wanyama, Gueye, Romeu... even the likes of Shelvey and Mooy this season.  Jedinak isn't that player.

Yup!

As I said, when we are sitting deep, defending a lead, he's (almost) perfect.

But in most other situations he is a bit too limited. Passing is awful, and mobility is very, very poor.

If we are to kick on and improve the way we play, I just don't think he's versatile enough.

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Surely the theory is that if he's acting like a third defender (which is a massive simplification of his role) then that gives the attacking players (including the full backs) more license to roam? 

You're basically telling me that there's no room in the modern Championship for a Makelele and if you employ that system you're automatically being negative. That's not the case surely? 

Maybe the football of late has generally been too negative and the attacking players, Kodjia aside, haven't performed. This is clouding people's judgement. 

Also comparing him to the best player in the country is just ridiculous. 

[sne]

Makéléle had amazing stamina & mobility, not sure it's a valid comparison.

Kanté and Makélélé on the other hand are very much alike.

Jedinak is more like Per Mertesacker but playing in midfield.

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

2 hours ago, sne said:

Makéléle had amazing stamina & mobility, not sure it's a valid comparison.

Kanté and Makélélé on the other hand are very much alike.

Jedinak is more like Per Mertesacker but playing in midfield.

 

Absolutely farcical comparison!

Are you guys watching the games? Jedinak covers a ton of ground. I wish I could prove it with statistics but I can't find them.

Sure, he's no Kante. I wasn't even saying that he's Makelele, but you lot talk like he's got no mobility whatsoever. He wouldn't be such an excellent defensive mid of that were true. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Going back to my earlier point, even if he is acting like a roaming centre back, surely that gives the attacking players more license?

Chelsea, likely champions, play with a back 3 no? 

I think people are understandably looking for reasons why we're so inept going forward and they're looking in the wrong place. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug.

[sne]

1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Absolutely farcical comparison!

Are you guys watching the games? Jedinak covers a ton of ground. I wish I could prove it with statistics but I can't find them.

Sure, he's no Kante. I wasn't even saying that he's Makelele, but you lot talk like he's got no mobility whatsoever. He wouldn't be such an excellent defensive mid of that were true. 

That was meant as sort of a joke  Hyperbole if you like.

But Jedi has flaws in his game that makes him very limited, mobility, passing and stamina the biggest ones.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

That was meant as sort of a joke  Hyperbole if you like.

But Jedi has flaws in his game that makes him very limited, mobility, passing and stamina the biggest ones.

Nothing wrong with his stamina. He's running, blocking, winning headers right up until the final whistle. Every game. 

[sne]

Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Nothing wrong with his stamina. He's running, blocking, winning headers right up until the final whistle. Every game. 

Really?

I've seen him looked knackered halfway into the first half.

Granted this was most during the first half of the season when he was playing in a 2 man midfield.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Really?

I've seen him looked knackered halfway into the first half.

Granted this was most during the first half of the season when he was playing in a 2 man midfield.

And he was playing with a knock for most of it. Since his long injury lay off he hasn't stopped. I don't think he's missed a minute? 

Edited April 27, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug.

[Banger75]

Are we really still arguing about his value to the team, and everyone's obviously expert opinion after a watching a few games on TV?

The reality is that most of his hard work is done away from the cameras, and you don''t need to the ball to do your job properly.

He does his job very well, the statistics speak for themselves.  He's not the quickest across the turf, but questioning his stamina is incomprehensible.  

Have a listen to the clips of Steve Bruce talking about him...he does not talk about any other player at the club in the same way. 

[villan-scott]

We had a quality mobile defensive midfielder whose stats are up there with Kante again this season, but the rest of the team was shit last season unfortunately. Gana has proven to be more than able in the Prem, just a shame we had to lose him. 

Jedinak is a beast, but has his flaws. As do 99.9% of Championship players!

[sparrow1988]

2 hours ago, villan-scott said:

We had a quality mobile defensive midfielder whose stats are up there with Kante again this season, but the rest of the team was shit last season unfortunately. Gana has proven to be more than able in the Prem, just a shame we had to lose him. 

Jedinak is a beast, but has his flaws. As do 99.9% of Championship players!

With the likes of Kante and Gana you still have a deep sitting midfielder alongside. Schneiderlin in Everton's case and Matic at Chelsea. They sit and are a bit more technical based where as Kante and Gana run around and win ball. It's like Kante and Gana have a 'free role' but they use this free role to run around and win the ball back from the opposition.

Jedinak is neither of these types but still very important to us in protecting the back four. My biggest problem with the midfield (and also attacking players) is our inability to win the ball back further up the field. We seem to let teams in to our half before trying to win the ball back. If we won the ball in the opposing half more often the defence wouldn't be under as much pressure.

[sne]

Yup!

The whole team, bar the striker sits way too deep and are too cautious so every time we do win the ball the team is too stretched out or rather our attacker is too isolated.

We lose the ball and repeat.

Those times we have the ball and attack as a team the tempo in both passing and movement is too slow making us easy to defend against.

This is one of the big things that needs working on in the summer.