Dr_Pangloss Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 1 minute ago, terrytini said: Jedi does a terrific job. And he has to the way we play, that's clear. One could argue that he is so good at what he does that when he's fit it makes sense to play a system that suits him ( although it would be fair to say that's quite a negative, careful approach). What is crystal clear is that when he ISNT available the contortions we go through to try and play the same way are disastrous. It is of great concern that with him unavailable, in a game with nothing to play for, we played Gardner and a shambolic cagey system rather than something that freed us up. If - as hoped - Bruce intends to play a more front foot game next season it's reasonable to think he should've road tested it today. Having slept on it...... I think I'm fooling myself that he will open us up more next year. A player like him shouldn't be so important for us at this level, a real sign of our negative approach under Bruce. I'm not sure any of the so called 'top' teams in the league this season are so reliant on such a one dimensional, defensive 'specialist' in midfield. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 100% agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 It's very much catch 22 with Jedi, we win more with him in the side, but without him we play better football. He hasn't the legs so someone(Lansbury) has to sit deeper alongside him which takes out our forward play. I still think he will be replaced in the summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 There's no problem having a specialist DM in the side and Jedi is an exceptional one. The problem is when you don't trust your back 4 and DM to be able handle the opposing threat and start asking other, more attack minded players to drop in alongside them. Defensive overkill. First name on the TS for me next season, with Lansbury and Hourihane in front of him, attacking the opposition. Best midfield 3 in the league by a mile if played correctly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 1 hour ago, mikeyp102 said: It's very much catch 22 with Jedi, we win more with him in the side, but without him we play better football. He hasn't the legs so someone(Lansbury) has to sit deeper alongside him which takes out our forward play. I still think he will be replaced in the summer. ...but then didn't we give him a 3 year deal on 50k? How do you justify not playing him? China...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 2 hours ago, wazzap24 said: There's no problem having a specialist DM in the side and Jedi is an exceptional one. The problem is when you don't trust your back 4 and DM to be able handle the opposing threat and start asking other, more attack minded players to drop in alongside them. Defensive overkill. First name on the TS for me next season, with Lansbury and Hourihane in front of him, attacking the opposition. Best midfield 3 in the league by a mile if played correctly. Against good sides I'd agree, but the calibre of football in the championship doesn't necessarily warrant the inclusion of a specialist DM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Against good sides I'd agree, but the calibre of football in the championship doesn't necessarily warrant the inclusion of a specialist DM. For me that depends solely on the instruction given to those further forward/around him. Even against weaker teams, you can't be totally gung-ho, but having Jedi there should not only allow the other midfielders to push on, but the fullbacks too. As we go forward, Jedi should drop between the two centre halfs, to effectively leave a 'back 3' guarding the counter, whilst the fullbacks provide some attacking width, the other midfielders look to get between the lines/beyond and support the forwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 14 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Against good sides I'd agree, but the calibre of football in the championship doesn't necessarily warrant the inclusion of a specialist DM. 100% agree, he's not essential unless we are committed to playing negative football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) Been important for us this season. But just like Frank the Wonder Horse from The Simpsons, he soils almost as much as he cleans. Edited May 7, 2017 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: 100% agree, he's not essential unless we are committed to playing negative football. Or you could be committed to letting the rest of your midfield get forward and thus using a DM to provide balance. A specialised DM is only a negative if you set the rest of your side up negatively too. A DM can allow the exact opposite if used correctly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 7, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2017 Jedinak is (like everything it seems today) both a good thing and a worry. We're better with him in the side, he can't pass for toffee, but he's a settling presence, sensible and a good protector of the back four - with him in the team we're more likely to do well even if slightly less likely to entertain. He's a plus. The big worry is that at the start of next season he'll be thirty three, I'm not sure we'll get 46 games out of him and I think we need another player who can play the role - so the question will be do we buy a back up or a replacement? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 27 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Jedinak is (like everything it seems today) both a good thing and a worry. We're better with him in the side, he can't pass for toffee, but he's a settling presence, sensible and a good protector of the back four - with him in the team we're more likely to do well even if slightly less likely to entertain. He's a plus. The big worry is that at the start of next season he'll be thirty three, I'm not sure we'll get 46 games out of him and I think we need another player who can play the role - so the question will be do we buy a back up or a replacement? It's hard to say IMO. If we got off to a flyer next season and the team was in form, I'd argue that Gardner or Bjarnason could do a decent job of holding in the absence of Jedi. Neither have the physical presence, but both are decent in the air and like a tackle. If the rest of the team were on form, then we'd be ok. If we start on par with what we've seen so far, then he's vital and I don't think we could rely on those mentioned in that scenario. I genuinely think some fans still underestimate his influence this season. Those stats aren't a fluke and we'd have lost/drawn more games if he'd been absent more often. Bruce knew that, hence why he's played a load of games whilst injured. I don't agree that we are less likely to entertain with him in the side. It's what Bruce decides to do with what's around him that dictates that. Get the five in front of him at it and the fullbacks supporting - we'd see some great football imo. Jedi is the belt, Bruce needs to be brave enough to remove the braces. If we do buy, I'd go with back up for now - maybe another old stager on a short term deal to share the load, although I can't think of many off the top of my head. If we get promoted, a full on, better quality replacement would be a must. I'd still keep him around though and he'd be a great squad member. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Sent home from Socceroos camp with soreness. He just wants to be ready for our new season so hes out of our Confederations Cup squad. To be honest.. even as an aussie.. its a good thing for Villa. Im glad. Australia can give a few young guys a chance too 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 He's essential to how we play. But with a bit more imagination and attacking bottle he wouldn't be necessarily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carewjust4u Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 On 5/7/2017 at 18:44, OutByEaster? said: Jedinak is (like everything it seems today) both a good thing and a worry. We're better with him in the side, he can't pass for toffee, but he's a settling presence, sensible and a good protector of the back four - with him in the team we're more likely to do well even if slightly less likely to entertain. He's a plus. The big worry is that at the start of next season he'll be thirty three, I'm not sure we'll get 46 games out of him and I think we need another player who can play the role - so the question will be do we buy a back up or a replacement? 100% agree, that's why we're going in for whealan imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 13, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, carewjust4u said: 100% agree, that's why we're going in for whealan imo. Problem is that Whelan is 33 too. If we're not careful, we're going to get a little bit dad's army. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsub Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 On 5/7/2017 at 19:26, wazzap24 said: It's hard to say IMO. If we got off to a flyer next season and the team was in form, I'd argue that Gardner or Bjarnason could do a decent job of holding in the absence of Jedi. Neither have the physical presence, but both are decent in the air and like a tackle. If the rest of the team were on form, then we'd be ok. If we start on par with what we've seen so far, then he's vital and I don't think we could rely on those mentioned in that scenario. I genuinely think some fans still underestimate his influence this season. Those stats aren't a fluke and we'd have lost/drawn more games if he'd been absent more often. Bruce knew that, hence why he's played a load of games whilst injured. I don't agree that we are less likely to entertain with him in the side. It's what Bruce decides to do with what's around him that dictates that. Get the five in front of him at it and the fullbacks supporting - we'd see some great football imo. Jedi is the belt, Bruce needs to be brave enough to remove the braces. If we do buy, I'd go with back up for now - maybe another old stager on a short term deal to share the load, although I can't think of many off the top of my head. If we get promoted, a full on, better quality replacement would be a must. I'd still keep him around though and he'd be a great squad member. "......I'd argue that Gardner or Bjarnason could do a decent job of holding in the absence of Jedi." Are you serious? Gardner is miles off the pace and watches games go by him. Bjarnason looks to have some promise but as an industrious attack minded player. He simply doesn't have the physique or mindset to be the destroyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Gardner is wank I'm all for signing Whelan to replace Jedinak should he get injured if it means Gardner doesn't start a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 The massive caveat was "if we got off to a flyer and the rest of the team were in form" and I said they didn't have the physical presence! If the team is 'in form' and we are playing decent football, you don't necessarily need a 'destroyer' as such, the role can be done in different ways. As I said in the post you quoted, if we start the new season like we ended the last, then Jedi is vital and I wouldn't rely on either of those. I'm not arguing either would be first choice, just suggesting they could 'do a job' here and there in a winning team. We should buy back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 3 hours ago, AshVilla said: Gardner is wank I'm all for signing Whelan to replace Jedinak should he get injured if it means Gardner doesn't start a game One of the first things Bruce did was give Gardner a new 5 year deal. You don't do that then not use the player. As long as Bruce is here, Gardner will be utilised. I don't think Gardner is that bad actually, just the way we play doesn't suit him at all. In fact it doesn't suit any of our midfielders, and I include our wingers in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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