UKIP/Reform NF Ltd and their non-racist well informed supporters

[tonyh29]

13 minutes ago, peterms said:

I'd like to think that was intentionally witty.  Truly now, was it?

meh , nobody ever questions Stewart bloody Lees comedy intent !!

 

The clue was in the * , do I have to give a road map with directions to every gag ? 

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

And  yes you should learn the language of a country if you are going to live there , shouldn't require any law , just common sense and common curtesy  as much as anything  

I didn't, in four separate countries. 

[NurembergVillan]

7 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

meh , nobody ever questions Stewart bloody Lees comedy intent !!

 

The clue was in the * , do I have to give a road map with directions to every gag ? 

I think he means the "pipes" bit, what with old lightbulb head being Scotch and all that.

And yes, I know there are bad elements to every nationality.  I also agree that learning a language when you live somewhere is the right thing to do - I didn't really need to.  The corporate language was English, and in shops most staff could speak it or I could get by.  I wanted to, because there were people there who I wanted to talk to who couldn't speak English.  The other ex-pats who didn't speak the lingo still managed to have a good life there, contribute lots of valuable tax money and create products that made billions in profits for their employers.

It feels like we're in a race to the bottom around stirring support for one side or the other and UKIP are leading the sprint.  The reality is that we gave up the right for Britain to be white and English speaking several hundred years ago when we invaded half the world and brought samples of the local population back with us.

[MakemineVanilla]

12 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

I lived in Germany for 6 years, as part of an ex-pat community at two major international brands. The English speaking contingent was mostly British but with a few Americans and a couple of Australians.  I was one of only a handful to get a grasp of the language, regardless of how long most stayed.  The Scandinavians all became fluent quickly.

It's a small sample size, but if every country insisted ex-pats had to learn the language there wouldn't be many Brits living abroad.  Or maybe that's the point?  I don't know if I'd want many of the ones who moved to the Costa del Chav to come back though, to be honest.  I'd rather keep the Poles.

It is egregiously paradoxical, that upward social mobility tends to make those who manage to struggle up a few wrungs on the social ladder, despise the working-class.  

The working-class are just too much of reminder of their own origins for the arriviste not to be discomfited by their habits and bitter prejudices. 

One simply can't avoid an overwhelming feeling of anomie when one is confronted with the authentic working-class.

Once you accept this as true then you start to understand why Poles with the same class values as oneself, are much more preferable to the broken and bereft British Chav-classes.

The first thing the newly-forged member of the middle-class does, is to move away.

Moving for 'better schools' is just code for getting away from the anti-educational culture of the Chavs.

Class is still more important than race or geographic origin when it comes to dividing people.

That is why you got so many likes.

 

 

 

 

[Chindie]

Assertion.

[NurembergVillan]

23 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

It is egregiously paradoxical, that upward social mobility tends to make those who manage to struggle up a few wrungs on the social ladder, despise the working-class.  

The working-class are just too much of reminder of their own origins for the arriviste not to be discomfited by their habits and bitter prejudices. 

One simply can't avoid an overwhelming feeling of anomie when one is confronted with the authentic working-class.

Once you accept this as true then you start to understand why Poles with the same class values as oneself, are much more preferable to the broken and bereft British Chav-classes.

The first thing the newly-forged member of the middle-class does, is to move away.

Moving for 'better schools' is just code for getting away from the anti-educational culture of the Chavs.

Class is still more important than race or geographic origin when it comes to dividing people.

That is why you got so many likes.

I don't despise anyone so long as they're of sound moral standing.

There's a lot of truth in what you've said.  Despise is a strong word though.  And I'm not sure I agree with the "better schools / code" part either.  For me, of course I want my child to go to a good school.  I also want to reduce the risk of being a victim of crime, having been one on average once per year throughout my time of living within the "M" postcode.  I'll also enjoy the 30% reduction in home and car insurance that comes with that reduced risk.

I think class is a tool which can be used to carve out racial issues.  The very notion that Trump and Farage can be seen as standing up for the ordinary man and sticking it up to the elite is laughable.  The working classes have been targeted by the elite in a bid to preserve the status quo - foreigners are costing you a good life, and we can fix that for you.

[StefanAVFC]

5 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

The very notion that Trump and Farage can be seen as standing up for the ordinary man and sticking it up to the elite is laughable.  The working classes have been targeted by the elite in a bid to preserve the status quo - foreigners are costing you a good life, and we can fix that for you.

To add to this, it's unbelievable cynical politics. Cut funding to core public services, paint rhetoric that it's foreigners coming in and bringing the public services to their knees. Rinse and repeat. It's been so indoctrinated at this point that if you try and have a debate about it with people who hold such views, they refuse to accept it.

It's a mess. And elite clearings in the woods like Farage and Trump are compounding that mess by pretending they give two shits about the working classes.

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

It is egregiously paradoxical, that upward social mobility tends to make those who manage to struggle up a few wrungs on the social ladder, despise the working-class.  

The working-class are just too much of reminder of their own origins for the arriviste not to be discomfited by their habits and bitter prejudices. 

One simply can't avoid an overwhelming feeling of anomie when one is confronted with the authentic working-class.

Once you accept this as true then you start to understand why Poles with the same class values as oneself, are much more preferable to the broken and bereft British Chav-classes.

The first thing the newly-forged member of the middle-class does, is to move away.

Moving for 'better schools' is just code for getting away from the anti-educational culture of the Chavs.

The above post makes the assumption that "racist chavs" = "the authentic working class". 

As one of those very upwardly mobile people to which you refer, I dispute that assumption. 

[blandy]

I read a thing in the paper that was looking at the result of the Austrian Presidential election re-run. It was basically 50-50 last ime between a Green and a Right Wing extremetard. The same 2 re-ran and the green chap won by about 6% or so. A major factor in his win was that Farage had supported the extremetard

Quote

There is a surprising new asset in the struggle against the far right in Europe – Nigel Farage. The inability of the garrulous pub landlord of British politics to keep quiet cost the Freedom Party victory in the Austrian election on Sunday.

That is certainly the view of the Austrian right wingers. Farage had taken it upon himself to declare that Norbert Hofer, the Freedom Party leader, would hold a referendum on leaving the European Union after he had won. “That did not help us, it hindered us,” was the angry complaint by Anton Mahdalik, a senior party member. “We were very aware that a majority of Austrians support EU membership.”

Hofer had described Farage’s unsolicited intervention as a “crass misjudgement”. He was so worried by the pronouncements of the Ukip man that he put out a statement on the eve of the poll saying, “I would ask him not to interfere in Austria’s internal affairs. It doesn’t fill me with joy when someone meddles from outside.” His country, he pointed out, had no desire to emulate Brexit. “It is not something I want. We need to build a stronger union,” he said....

 

[MakemineVanilla]

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

The above post makes the assumption that "racist chavs" = "the authentic working class". 

As one of those very upwardly mobile people to which you refer, I dispute that assumption. 

 

19 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

 I don't know if I'd want many of the ones who moved to the Costa del Chav to come back though, to be honest.  I'd rather keep the Poles.

It was NV who made the assumption that a majority of the three-quarters of a million British ex-pats living in Spain were racist Chavs he wouldn't want back.

And you liked his sentiments apparently.

I wrote that I thought class was the cause of division not race or geographic origin.

 

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said:

 

It was NV who made the assumption that a majority of the three-quarters of a million British ex-pats living in Spain were racist Chavs he wouldn't want back.

And you liked his sentiments apparently.

I wrote that I thought class was the cause of division not race or geographic origin.

 

There was no mention of majority, and certainly not across the whole of Spain either.

My reference was to some of the British ex-pats who have moved to the Costa Del Sol and not made any attempt to integrate, setting up English language newspapers and British pubs.

Anyone who has visited the area will have seen the type of place, and people, I was referring to.

Whilst my intention was implied and should perhaps have been more explicit, the intent was to illustrate the hypocrisy of Britain needing people to make more of an effort when we can be as guilty of not assimilating when living overseas.

I apologise if my ill-fated attempt to raise a wry smile came across as a betrayal of my own background and family.

[MakemineVanilla]

1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said:

There was no mention of majority, and certainly not across the whole of Spain either.

My reference was to some of the British ex-pats who have moved to the Costa Del Sol and not made any attempt to integrate, setting up English language newspapers and British pubs.

Anyone who has visited the area will have seen the type of place, and people, I was referring to.

Whilst my intention was implied and should perhaps have been more explicit, the intent was to illustrate the hypocrisy of Britain needing people to make more of an effort when we can be as guilty of not assimilating when living overseas.

I apologise if my ill-fated attempt to raise a wry smile came across as a betrayal of my own background and family.

I know what you were saying about Brits not learning languages.

But when you wrote that you would not want many of those Brits living in Costa del Chav to return, you were implying that the rest, and therefore the majority, were Chavs. 

I had no objection to your opinion but your wording led me to be believe that your prejudice against the denizens if Costa del Chav was probably based upon class or the lack thereof. 

 

 

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Your prejudice against the denizens if Costa del Chav was probably based upon class or the lack thereof. 

People of any class can behave with class...  Similarly people of any class can behave without class too...!

[Seat68]

UKIP increased their share in Sleaford and Hykeham but thankfully the tories held on to the seat. Labour beaten into 4th place reducing their vote share by 7%.

[chrisp65]

So a woman, on her own personal promo video that says she 'wants to send them all back' is still allowed to stand by her party and goes on to get 13.5% of the vote.

What a nice bunch of lads the UKIPs are. 

 

[Chindie]

Had they been able to justify more openly talking about her 'send 'em all back' thoughts, and not been pressured to ditch her by wider society, I'd wager she'd have for more than 13.5%.

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Had they been able to justify more openly talking about her 'send 'em all back' thoughts, and not been pressured to ditch her by wider society, I'd wager she'd have for more than 13.5%.

Were they pressured to ditch her by wider society? I admit I haven't been paying particularly close attention to the news this week, but the only mention I've seen of her video was on here. 

[Chindie]

6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Were they pressured to ditch her by wider society? I admit I haven't been paying particularly close attention to the news this week, but the only mention I've seen of her video was on here. 

That's kinda my point. Had they run with her front and centre saying 'get rid of the migrants, send em back', instead of it being something that came out in a barely watched video days before the election, and had they, having done that, not been absolutely castigated (correctly) by everyone for doing it, she'd have got more votes IMO. Almost certainly not enough to win but I bet it would be higher than 13.5%. 

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, Chindie said:

That's kinda my point. Had they run with her front and centre saying 'get rid of the migrants, send em back', instead of it being something that came out in a barely watched video days before the election, and had they, having done that, not been absolutely castigated (correctly) by everyone for doing it, she'd have got more votes IMO. Almost certainly not enough to win but I bet it would be higher than 13.5%. 

Agreed. She'd be championed for being honest and saying what she thinks.

[NurembergVillan]

Made a rare venture in front of the TV for Question Time last night.  I saw it accurately described on Twitter as being "Celebrity Jeremy Kyle".

Farridge is an odious chap isn't he?  He points out all the problems but rarely has a credible solution of his own; he castigates the "political class" despite, to me, being one of them; and makes an overstated laugh when anyone calls him out rather than making a considered response.

And, because I'm sometimes petty, from now on he'll be called Farridge.  He's no more Fuh-rahge than Mrs Bucket was Hyacinth Bouquet.