UKIP/Reform NF Ltd and their non-racist well informed supporters

[tonyh29]

9 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think if he had still met their requirements (I.e. had loads of cash, investments and the mortgage hasn’t just been paid off) then they couldn’t have just kicked him out. I bet they have plenty of other undesirables in their business still.

He didn’t meet their requirements any longer, and that’s a fact. They made the mistake of writing down a load of other (true) stuff that he was bad for their brand because he’s a racist, lying grifter etc which they should never have done.

The whole thing was managed ridiculously and the woman at the top paid the price.

They should have just sent him a letter thanking him for his business over the years but going forwards he no longer met the requirements of the bank and he’d need to find a new account provider.

 

 

I think the dossier was the reason , the selectively applied threshold the excuse .. but as you say they managed it ridiculously and Rose has quite rightly lost her job  after doing untold damage to Coutt's reputation and potentially landing them GDPR breaches and fines  

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

 

I think the dossier was the reason , the selectively applied threshold the excuse .. but as you say they managed it ridiculously and Rose has quite rightly lost her job  after doing untold damage to Coutt's reputation and potentially landing them GDPR breaches and fines  

I dunno, I think (if I wasn't well below the financial threshold) I would be more likely to want to bank with Coutt's now. 

[Chindie]

Coutts becoming the wokest bank wasn't in anyone's 2023 bingo card.

Not that it actually has, of course. 

[andym]

29 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think if he had still met their requirements (I.e. had loads of cash, investments and the mortgage hasn’t just been paid off) then they couldn’t have just kicked him out. I bet they have plenty of other undesirables in their business still.

He didn’t meet their requirements any longer, and that’s a fact. They made the mistake of writing down a load of other (true) stuff that he was bad for their brand because he’s a racist, lying grifter etc which they should never have done.

The whole thing was managed ridiculously and the woman at the top paid the price.

They should have just sent him a letter thanking him for his business over the years but going forwards he no longer met the requirements of the bank and he’d need to find a new account provider.

 

His views have not exactly been hidden for the last however many years, and that dossier showed despite their concerns over his views they were ok with continuing to have him as a customer as recently as November last year, when he still met their commercial criteria. They also mentioned other customers holding views not fully aligned with theirs.

However, once his mortgage was up it meant his monetary value to them wasn't worth the hassle of all the other nonsense that he brings, so they exited him.

To be honest, that's exactly how i'd expect a bank like that to operate; happy to turn a blind eye to anything as long as you've got enough cash, but if you don't you get binned off. The opposite of 'woke' as Farage has been claiming.

They did manage it poorly however, allowing Farage to set the narrative (aided by the media happy to give him a platform unchallenged). The only real push back was the guest who debated him on Newsnight the other week; note Farage didn't contest any of her points and resorted to just complaining all the banks are woke remainers.

It would be nice if an interviewer asked Farage why as a self-styled anti-establishment man of the people, he's obsessed with banking at a super elite private bank, but i won't hold my breath on that.

 

[Chindie]

The BBC (bizarrely live reporting this) has has comment from a couple of MPs moaning that's more difficult to get financial services as Politically Exposed Persons.

Good...! When you're in a position that puts you at risk of corruption, bribery etc, you should have to jump through more hoops and find out much harder to get these services. That's the **** point.

[delboy54]

7 minutes ago, Chindie said:

The BBC (bizarrely live reporting this) has has comment from a couple of MPs moaning that's more difficult to get financial services as Politically Exposed Persons.

Good...! When you're in a position that puts you at risk of corruption, bribery etc, you should have to jump through more hoops and find out much harder to get these services. That's the **** point.

Surprised in a different way, I thought that most MP's (allegedly) did their dodgy transactions in brown envelopes stuffed with used notes....

[Genie]

Farage is now calling for the entire Natwest board to resign, the absolute cretin.

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

One of the stupidest stories in recent times. No surprise when it's Farage, the Tories and Tufton puppet masters involved.

One of the stupidest, absolutely. 

But on an optics level, I've got no problem Sunak, Braverman and all their rat-bag Brexity cheerleaders using their political time and effort on an erstwhile millionaire and his troubles finding an exclusive bank account. 

I imagine it's just the sort of thing that their potential swing-voters want them concentrating their time on in the current economic climate. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by ml1dch

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

 

I think the dossier was the reason , the selectively applied threshold the excuse .. but as you say they managed it ridiculously and Rose has quite rightly lost her job  after doing untold damage to Coutt's reputation and potentially landing them GDPR breaches and fines  

Seems most likely and because it's happened to other people like Konstantin Kisin and Tide bank. Where the account closure was the same they just closed his account and wouldn't give a reason. 

I think the rule changes where banks are required to give 90 days notice and stated reasons for account closure to allow time to appeal are sensible. 

I think in a lot of these cases the rules banks are using to close the accounts is under the Politically Exposed Persons. Essentially they require extra scrutiny as they may be bribed etc. 

As a bank can't just close your account and say we don't want you as a customer because we disagree with your views. That's illegal for them to do and with the rule changes they can't do that discreetly like it seems they have been doing in some cases. 

[ml1dch]

10 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Seems most likely and because it's happened to other people like Konstantin Kisin and Tide bank. Where the account closure was the same they just closed his account and wouldn't give a reason. 

Speaking as someone tangentially linked to the industry, if you're denied a financial service and are not given a reason, it's nearly always due to suspected criminality and giving any form of reason to that person could be seen by any subsequent investigation as tipping off. Leading to potential jail time for the person doing so. 

I've no idea who this Kisin bloke that you keep referring to is, or what the supposed views are that he thinks led to his account closure.

But it's a pretty big leap on his part to go from "they won't give me a reason", which is an unbelievably common occurrence to "I've decided that it's because they disagree with me on xyx"

Edited July 26, 2023 by ml1dch

[Chindie]

13 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Speaking as someone tangentially linked to the industry, if you're denied a financial service and are not given a reason, it's nearly always due to suspected criminality and giving any form of reason to that person could be seen by any subsequent investigation as tipping off. Leading to potential jail time for the person doing so. 

I've no idea who this Kisin bloke that you keep referring to is, or what the supposed views are that he thinks led to his account closure.

But it's a pretty big leap on his part to go from "they won't give me a reason", which is an unbelievably common occurrence to "I've decided that it's because they disagree with me on xyx"

You'll be gobsmacked to discover that Kisin is allegedly a comedian and a political commentator who 'advocates free speech' on his podcast, where he usually just sides with the right wing view but claims to be unbiased. Usual shit, packaged up as intellectually advanced common sense, but just your now classic anti-left, 'woke' etc shit like all the others.

[Chindie]

Incidentally a brief look into the issues with Tide seemed to boil down to them not being able to verify where all their podcast income was coming from, so they made the decision to close off business with them (because of they were getting money from, say, Russia, that bank is in trouble).

[CVByrne]

21 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Speaking as someone tangentially linked to the industry, if you're denied a financial service and are not given a reason, it's nearly always due to suspected criminality and giving any form of reason to that person could be seen by any subsequent investigation as tipping off. Leading to potential jail time for the person doing so. 

Different laws, one is anti money laundering, terrorist or criminal financing. You need to involve law enforcement in that situation, like seeing suspicious transactions on an account. So in those situations you don't notify the customer, their account will be frozen and their assets as they are from criminality potentially. 

There are legitimate commercial reasons for closing an account too. Constant late payments, or falling below thresholds for certain accounts. For example HSBC Premier Account requires 75k per year in income to be deposited and you need to have a mortgage or saving/investment plan with them to qualify. If you don't they can close your account (though they would offer the other account alternative).

 

21 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

I've no idea who this Kisin bloke that you keep referring to is, or what the supposed views are that he thinks led to his account closure.

But it's a pretty big leap on his part to go from "they won't give me a reason", which is an unbelievably common occurrence to "I've decided that it's because they disagree with me on xyx"

He's a comedian and has done various panels on TV, like BBC question time etc. He came to fame with his viral Oxford union speech last year really. I've no idea on the exact reason it happened. I just thought of that when the Farage stuff kicked off. 

Konstantin Kisin - Wikipedia

Quote

An issue much wider than NatWest and Farage

Dearbail Jordan

Business reporter

The issue about people being "de-banked" - having their accounts closed by their bank - has been going on for much longer than the Nigel Farage/Natwest row.

And it isn't just about traditional lenders.

Late last year, Paypal closed accounts run by Toby Young, who is general secretary of the Free Speech Union. They were later reinstated by the US payments company.

The UK government then announced a review into payment services regulations.

One of the major sticking points has been about so-called "politically exposed person" or PEPs.

These are people who hold a prominent position or influence who may be more susceptible to being involved in bribery or corruption, and banks are required to do extra due diligence them.

There have been concerns that lenders and payment firms may have been "overzealous" in using PEPs to close the accounts of people because they disagree with their political views.

The UK government has since announced new rules for banks over closing a customer's account.

Banks will have to explain why they are closing accounts and will have to give a notice period of 90 days to allow people more time to appeal against the decision.

 

Dame Alison Rose: Farage calls for whole NatWest board to resign over Coutts leak - BBC News

•  

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by CVByrne

[Seat68]

4 minutes ago, Chindie said:

You'll be gobsmacked to discover that Kisin is allegedly a comedian and a political commentator who 'advocates free speech' on his podcast, where he usually just sides with the right wing view but claims to be unbiased. Usual shit, packaged up as intellectually advanced common sense, but just your now classic anti-left, 'woke' etc shit like all the others.

 

[CVByrne]

6 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Incidentally a brief look into the issues with Tide seemed to boil down to them not being able to verify where all their podcast income was coming from, so they made the decision to close off business with them (because of they were getting money from, say, Russia, that bank is in trouble).

Can you link me to that please, I couldn't find anything on how the whole thing was concluded. Thanks

[bickster]

37 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Seems most likely and because it's happened to other people like Konstantin Kisin and Tide bank. Where the account closure was the same they just closed his account and wouldn't give a reason. 

 

That wasn't basic personal banking either. That was a business account

[CVByrne]

5 minutes ago, bickster said:

That wasn't basic personal banking either. That was a business account

Yeah, but you get my point. There was PayPal and somebody called Toby Young and Free Speech Union. So on the face of it lots of account closures for people or small companies with right wing views being closed. You add that to the dossier Farage has managed to get. Any reasonable person can see it appears these account closures are being done based on those peoples political views.

I think the 90 day period and reasons required to be given should stop things like that happening again. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by CVByrne

[Chindie]

6 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Can you link me to that please, I couldn't find anything on how the whole thing was concluded. Thanks

Look at their tweet from 25 May. I'm not linking it because **** giving them advertising.

[Chindie]

5 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Yeah, but you get my point. There was PayPal and somebody called Toby Young and Free Speech Union. So on the face of it lots of account closures for people or small companies with right wing views being closed. You add that to the dossier Farage has managed to get. Any reasonable person can see it appears these account closures are being done based on those peoples political views.

I think the 90 day period and reasons required to be given should stop things like that happening again. 

Toby Young got binned from PayPal because his organisations were associated with COVID misinformation and PayPal didn't want to be associated with it as the avenue for donations. It was only when the odious word removed made enough noise that they decided the harm from him whinging outweighed the harm from being associated with his shit tangentially that they rowed it back.

Businesses don't have to accept your custom if they think you're not worth the harm and hassle you'll bring - you've no right to use PayPal.

[CVByrne]

4 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Look at their tweet from 25 May. I'm not linking it because **** giving them advertising.

It does seem a made up reason because essentially all youtubers accept donations it's one of the ways they fund it all. 

It does fit with the BBC news I linked further above. Banks are using the PEP rules on a wider basis for these account closures.