International Football General Chat

[JamieZ]

2 minutes ago, Rino8 said:

The England team has become a joke. The players hate getting called up, the football has been dire for at least a decade and none of them take it seriously. It looks like more of a chance to hang out with your mates than it does represent your country.

 

Being England manager is closer to a political position than it is a football job. The whole thing needs fundamentally changing.

I guess I can wrap my head around it from the perspective of "Look at the state of things!" and wanting things to change. And I understand what you mean about...about there being something rotten in Denmark, so to speak. You're too deep in too many positions to not be performing better than you are. England has been a "lesser than the sum of its parts" national team for almost as long as I can remember, and I don't entirely understand what that's down to. Too many options to create a sense of cohesion within the group? Substandard management? Lack of interest from the players. Or just a "club before country" culture?

As an American, it's so different. Aside from the fact that I very much support the USMNT because it represents a kind of American pluralism that has almost political significance (let's just say it resonates with my world view more than gun shows, xenophobia, and monster truck rallies), I think Americans who truly follow football want something they can call their own that's considered valuable or at least legitimate on the world stage. Like, "Look! It's not just bald goalkeepers anymore! We can actually play." And I think we're finally getting to that point—where someone can say they don't rate a particular American player, fine, but it's a bit far fetched to suggest now that it's because he's an American player. And there's a really, really good vibe around the programme and a palpable sense of team spirit that is drawing dual nationals like Sergiño Dest (who would walk into Netherlands' starting XI) and England-eligible Yunus Musah to turn out for us. So things are looking up. I hope we're able to build depth but maintain that camaraderie and positivity within the group. It seems like we're on the threshold of something good.

[villa4europe]

4 hours ago, Rino8 said:

The England team has become a joke. The players hate getting called up, the football has been dire for at least a decade and none of them take it seriously. It looks like more of a chance to hang out with your mates than it does represent your country.

Being England manager is closer to a political position than it is a football job. The whole thing needs fundamentally changing.

Disagree with the first bit, not sure if it's St George's, something behind the scenes, social media, WhatsApp or something you do actually credit Southgate for but for the first time in a long time the players do look happy to be there rather than not take it seriously 

Agree with the 2nd bit though, the FA is a massive boys club, got no faith in the whole system, Southgate is one of them, so is boothroyd

There's going to be some unhappy people at the end of the season when he names his squad, this pool of players is so good and deep that there's no way he can get everyone in

[The_Rev]

6 hours ago, JamieZ said:

That is so strange to me as an American: we're country before club as a rule. Maybe it comes from "not being a footballing nation", but I can't imagine not wanting the team to do well.

It’s strange to me as an Englishman too and I’m a card carrying liberal who thinks the government and a lot of our institutions are awful, but I still want the football team to win.  England winning a tournament is probably the best chance I’ll get of ever seeing my team win a major honour.  

[Zatman]

6 hours ago, JamieZ said:

That is so strange to me as an American: we're country before club as a rule. Maybe it comes from "not being a footballing nation", but I can't imagine not wanting the team to do well.

It seems to be just an England team, the national team is a thing of pride for other countries

I blame Sky for this who seem to make the international break some sort of dirty event

Edited March 26, 2021 by Zatman

[Mic09]

24 minutes ago, Zatman said:

It seems to be just an England team, the national team is a thing of pride for other countries

I blame Sky for this who seem to make the international break some sort of dirty event

Yes, but there is also a lot of fan cynicism;

'Kane is diving and is shit'
'Calvert Lewin was good for a month in 2020'
'Mount can clean Grealish boots'
'5 Defenders? Vest wearing tw**'

And these are just some of the mainstream opinions - no wonder an average fan is finding it hard to get behind that team. And it has always been the case since I've moved to England in 2005.

I think it's the general negativity towards other teams in the Premier League which makes it harder to support individual players.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Mic09

[BOF]

[Danny_Villaman84]

11 hours ago, villa4europe said:

I don't think maddison will go

Shame innit, as he is over looking, which he should have as he is ideal play with foden and grealish will more dangerous also free kick specialist as well so seem like lingaad possible take his roles. Even I don't rate him but he is damn improvement and better player I admitted it. He should give a chance yet I think maddision should ahead him.

I impressive with Bellingham last night.

[BOF]

12 hours ago, villa4europe said:

I don't think maddison will go

My guess is he does go. I don't think you leave Maddison out of the squad, even as stacked as England are at attacking mid.

[The_Rev]

No matter what squad Southgate picks some really good players are getting left at home.   I'm not sure in my 30+ years as an England fan I've ever known such strength in depth and it still feels a bit weird.    Just trying to think who is absolutely guaranteed to be in the squad unless they get injured and I've got Kane, Sterling, Mount, Rice, Maguire, Pickford, Calvert-Lewin and after that it gets a bit iffy.   I think Henderson will be fit and go, I can't see him not taking Alexander-Arnold, Jack goes if fit,  I've got a feeling Mings goes too just because he's left footed and appears to be good in the dressing room.   I don't think Watkins will go to the Euros when Sancho comes back but Watkins probably knows he's part of the World Cup qualifier cycle. Rashford will go, Foden will go, a lot of the other spots are probably going to be who you would expect but still very much up for grabs. 

[BOF]

22 minutes ago, The_Rev said:

No matter what squad Southgate picks some really good players are getting left at home.   I'm not sure in my 30+ years as an England fan I've ever known such strength in depth and it still feels a bit weird.    Just trying to think who is absolutely guaranteed to be in the squad unless they get injured and I've got Kane, Sterling, Mount, Rice, Maguire, Pickford, Calvert-Lewin and after that it gets a bit iffy.   I think Henderson will be fit and go, I can't see him not taking Alexander-Arnold, Jack goes if fit,  I've got a feeling Mings goes too just because he's left footed and appears to be good in the dressing room.   I don't think Watkins will go to the Euros when Sancho comes back but Watkins probably knows he's part of the World Cup qualifier cycle. Rashford will go, Foden will go, a lot of the other spots are probably going to be who you would expect but still very much up for grabs. 

Yeah it's absolutely crazy. I think the righthand side will have Sancho and Lingard. The latter couldn't have timed his resurgence any better. He'll be difficult to ignore now.

[The Fun Factory]

28 minutes ago, BOF said:

Yeah it's absolutely crazy. I think the righthand side will have Sancho and Lingard. The latter couldn't have timed his resurgence any better. He'll be difficult to ignore now.

Lingard? He has had about 5 good games in the last 18 months and gets straight back in the set up. Grealish had to be play amazing for 18 months straight and was only finally given a chance due to others getting injured.  From what I saw last night I was not impressed. Wasteful in his chances aganist effectively a non league side and selfish too as several times he could have passed to ball to Calvert-Lewin or Watkins in better positions. 

When we have to play a quality team in the knock out stages in the Euros and we are 1-0 down I doubt they will be worried if we bring Lingard on.

Edited March 26, 2021 by The Fun Factory

[Zatman]

I think England bring 2 recognised strikers and Rashford who can play there as well. Leaves probably 8 spots in midfield if Southgate wants to play 5 at the back.  Phillips, Henderson, Rice, Ward Prowse, Jack, Foden, Sancho, Sterling, Maddison, Lingard, Mount, Saka and maybe Loftus Cheek. I think Barnes wont be fit

It will be close but I dont think Southgate is bringing Jack and Foden. Its one or the other

[VillaChris]

9 hours ago, Rino8 said:

The England team has become a joke. The players hate getting called up, the football has been dire for at least a decade and none of them take it seriously. It looks like more of a chance to hang out with your mates than it does represent your country.

 

Being England manager is closer to a political position than it is a football job. The whole thing needs fundamentally changing.

Had to check if this post wasn't from anywhere between 2006-12! When England national team had half team who really didn't want to be there and likes of Carrick came out years later and basically admitted it and he wasn't the only one from that group.

At least know you see people in the camp very happy to be there especially if they're having a tricky time at club level and there's better feeding through the system now in terms of age groups than a decade ago imo.

It's a bit like Wales a decade ago being seen as a total joke with 5-10 players constantly calling off injured and now likes of Bale can't wait up to meet with the squad as he loves playing with guys he's grown up with (so completet contrast to how Giggs used his time with the national team).

Southgate flatlined a bit in last 18 months and probably not the manager to being any success but I give him credit for realising that for England to become decent again they need more of club style set up and atmosphere to improve players mentality, St Georges Park massively helped aswell I think in terms of facilities.

[VillaChris]

58 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I think England bring 2 recognised strikers and Rashford who can play there as well. Leaves probably 8 spots in midfield if Southgate wants to play 5 at the back.  Phillips, Henderson, Rice, Ward Prowse, Jack, Foden, Sancho, Sterling, Maddison, Lingard, Mount, Saka and maybe Loftus Cheek. I think Barnes wont be fit

It will be close but I dont think Southgate is bringing Jack and Foden. Its one or the other

I agree. Kane, Rashford and then Sterling false 9 as 3 central options and gives you flexibility to get in another attacking midfielder into the squad. Can't see likes of Tammy or Ings getting squad call up now despite both featuring regularly in last year.

Calvert Lewin boderline but wouldn't call him up either.

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

I agree. Kane, Rashford and then Sterling false 9 as 3 central options and gives you flexibility to get in another attacking midfielder into the squad. Can't see likes of Tammy or Ings getting squad call up now despite both featuring regularly in last year.

Calvert Lewin boderline but wouldn't call him up either.

Calvert Lewin has had a good season but he won’t strike fear coming off the bench vs a top team. I think Tammy is the better option personally

[PaulC]

I dont think he will go into a world cup with Just Kane,  Rashford and Sterling, two of which are just wide players. hes going to pick either Calvert-lewin or Abraham and Calvert-lewin is the most likely. 

[villa4europe]

it all depends on the number he plays at the back, if he plays 5 then he cant take all these midfielders and attackers

3 keepers, 2 right backs (!) 2 left backs, 5 centre backs, 2 strikers, would give him 9 midfielders, but if he plays 5 at the back i think he takes 6 centre backs and 8 midfielders

3 keepers, james, TAA, chilwell, saka, maguire, stones, mings, coady, walker, rice, mount, phillips, maddison, bellingham, grealish, foden, sterling, sancho, kane, DCL

no henderson, dier, lingard, watkins, tammy, ings, shaw, trippier, ward prowse, rashford, winks... i just do not see him not taking rashford, henderson or unfortunately dier if they're all fit and maddison is the obvious 1st player to drop out because he never plays for southgate, his non picking of him is almost as bad as his aversion to grealish, this was the squad for him and he's missed it

do still think that henderson will retire from international football once its done, not convinced he's physically able to play a tournament, niggly injuries have done him

Edited March 26, 2021 by villa4europe

[OutByEaster?]

3 hours ago, BOF said:

My guess is he does go. I don't think you leave Maddison out of the squad, even as stacked as England are at attacking mid.

I think he'll leave Maddison behind. It's tricky and it'll come down to how many players he takes in attacking midfield positions.

I'd say Sterling and Mount are absolutely nailed on.

I think he'll take four pivot midfielders, presumably Henderson, Rice, Phillips and one from Ward-Prowse, Winks or Bellingham.

So then we're most likely looking at another three from:

Grealish, Foden, Sancho, Rashford, Maddison, Lingaard and Saka (if he's not going as a full back).

Personally I'd take Grealish, Foden and Saka/Rashford.

 

[Zatman]

Maddison always seems injured when England plays which probably goes against him

[Delphouneso]

It's likely a couple of injuries will be the deciding factor anyway, particularly this season. Though Gary seems hell bent on reuniting the old gang and taking as many 2018 WC players as he can, I've no doubt if fit Henderson, Dier, Trippier, Lingard, Rashford all go despite question marks over all of them. He couldn't recall Stones and Lingard quick enough and Dier would still get picked if his foot fell off.