Butterfingers Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Or more to the point how can he tell that they're taunting them? If its the video that I've seen, its a few young kids begging outside a bar and the English are all rolling coins towards them to chase and see who gets there first. The end of the video sees a few happy young kids with bags full of money. Harmless acts of kindness turned into "They're a disgrace to our nation" You couldn't make it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysAVFC Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: Or more to the point how can he tell that they're taunting them? If its the video that I've seen, its a few young kids begging outside a bar and the English are all rolling coins towards them to chase and see who gets there first. The end of the video sees a few happy young kids with bags full of money. Harmless acts of kindness turned into "They're a disgrace to our nation" You couldn't make it up. I agree with what you said but I have seen similar first hand when in Amsterdam to watch England. With what started as a homeless guy getting thrown a bit of change, having a dance and enjoying is moment of attention, it quickly turned into coins being thrown at him rather than towards him. Although as you say there is nothing showing that anything like this is was happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 If only there was some way of sharing these videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 52 minutes ago, limpid said: I'm not in any way condoning any kind of behaviour and I've not seen the video, but how can you tell children in a video are refugees? Watch the video that's all I say mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 27 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: Or more to the point how can he tell that they're taunting them? If its the video that I've seen, its a few young kids begging outside a bar and the English are all rolling coins towards them to chase and see who gets there first. The end of the video sees a few happy young kids with bags full of money. Harmless acts of kindness turned into "They're a disgrace to our nation" You couldn't make it up. Ok so it's good to throw money violently on the floor for 4-5 year olds to pick up off the floor? If these fans are so kind as you say why not hand the money to the kids? Why throw in the floor like they are peasants. kindness my arse 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Ok so it's good to throw money violently on the floor for 4-5 year olds to pick up off the floor? If these fans are so kind as you say why not hand the money to the kids? Why throw in the floor like they are peasants. kindness my arse Firstly, whilst it probably makes better reading for you to say "4-5 year olds", hey really aren't are they? Secondly, having just watched the video again, everyone is rolling coins underarm, however 1 bloke does throw 2 coins overarm. He was aiming for distance. You've obviously focussed on that in your quest to find something bad to moan about. I'd say that if he meant an ill will, he would have hit one of the kids. As for throwing it on the floor, I saw it as a bit of a game for the kids to chase the coins. Try not to be so judgemental of people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post icouldtelltheworld Posted June 16, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) I don't know if a link to facebook will work, but there's the video for anyone that's interested. It doesn't look too nasty, and I'm certainly not going to accuse everyone there of being a racist; but it certainly seems indicative of a nasty ignorance that runs through the mainstream of English culture. I'm English but most of my family are Irish, and I've copped some stick the past few days about the behaviour of our fans thus far, and I've stuck up for them as It seems clear to me that we weren't the main antagonists in Marseille, but there were still reports before the Russians showed up of England fans chanting about ISIS (in a city with a big and not particularly well integrated Muslim community - how do we react when groups like the EDL chant their filth in Birmingham?), chanting "if it wasn't for the English you'd be krauts" at the locals, plenty of "10 German bombers". We don't really help ourselves do we? It is utterly disgusting that innocent English fans have been caught up in this, and my understanding is the French police don't seem to care much for the safety of our supporters (particularly the case in Marseille after 1998 I'd imagine), but the scenes that Collymore broadcast today - "thousands" (his words) of English fans prowling the streets looking for Russians, damaging cars etc, and videos such as the one above, this behaviour is abhorrent and we should all be ashamed of it, and quick to condemn it. Every single country has their minority of idiots, every club and country at every level of football does, but we can't kid ourselves and pretend that England doesn't have one of the biggest minorities of all countries, despite everything we've done to get over the bad days. Those lads marching round Lille today in Collymore's video, how many are there to support the team and how many are there to let everyone know the "Ing-er-lish" are in town? And how many made the short hop through the tunnel the last few days because they wanted a rematch tear up with the Russians? Would you dismiss pissed up football fans throwing coins at homeless young people in Brum as 'a bit of a game' if they were fans of a travelling team on a visit to Villa Park of a Saturday afternoon? Would you ****. I wanted it to be a case of the English being attacked and having to stand up, which I'm sure at points it has been, but despite 2000 odd hooligans having to have handed in their passports this month, the English are still game as hell and everyone knows it. It's sad that these are young lads for the most part, it could really set the English game back, we seem to be a certain amount of time over "the English disease" that it has become idolised to an extent, the Premier League generation have little first hand experience of it; it's glorified as an almost honourable outlet for male aggression. A historical factor of football pre-1992. Several romanticised films have been made. I doubt my dad's ever had a fight in his life, but he's gone the Villa for 50 years and has genuinely told me that he believes there was less gang and random violence through the 70s and 80s because of the football violence. Even someone who never had any involvement or experience with it, who hates violence, can make an excuse for it. It seems strange to me. Disturbing people's views in the fanzone by standing in a circle and chanting, cheering when France's opposition score, making ignorant as **** references to ISIS (seen an English fan in an "I h8 Isis" tshirt, like every other sane word removed in the civilised world doesn't), chants about a war that none of these words removed even remember, the fact I've heard enough filth on the Holte over the years to know full well that racism and right wing politics are alive and well in English football (a guy turned to me once and said "KEA's alright, but he's a paki" - if it's censored, a very unkind 4-letter word for a person of Pakistani/Asian origin, how do we challenge that level of ignorance? I just dropped my jaw and turned away) it all makes me uneasy about fully supporting the English team, and I absolutely hate it. If i'm honest, with the mob mentality and vast money, I often wonder why I have any interest in football at all, it's at odds with almost all my other morals in life. I mean where the **** else would we be praising a guy who made his billions exporting MSG if he hadn't just bought the Villa? I tried supporting Sutton Town for a spell, but it's not the same, cheaper, mind - and you see more goals. I hold onto the belief that even though the business and money behind Villa is inevitably corrupt or immoral as hell (as all money acquired within the billions inevitably is - Marxist though that may sound), that despite all that, the Villa are a community asset that serve a purpose round here, a huge part of my identity, passed down from my dad, to me, to my son. I just can't feel that way with the the England team while such a sizeable minority make me feel uncomfortable, I know it's pretty trendy to say you hate/don't care about the England team on VT, and I'm sure the scumbag fan element is a factor for a lot of people. Singing about the IRA almost 20 years post ceasefire? I'm no sympathiser, but with my parents and grandparents background (majority of my family are from Derry and a lot remember Bloody Sunday), it makes me feel uneasy. I wonder how much the average England fan throwing chairs in Lille or Marseille could tell me about the Troubles if we sat down to discuss it? What happens to the English abroad? There are many English fans in France who will be more upset if we come home having looked second in the hooligan stakes to Russia, than if we lose our next two group games and go out with a whimper. This is the best England team since 1996, and should go far. It's pathetic, and it's not a particulalry small number totalled up. I bet those backing Brexit are rubbing their hands and licking their lips, a further wedge between the UK and Europe before the Sun-sponsored EU election. I believe if we lose our next two games we'll be eliminated from the Euros two days before the referendum? All bets are off on the result in that case. One thing I will say, it shows how well football is policed in this country, and far from the last few days being a reason why England couldn't host a tournament, it serves as testament we could hold one within months and do a better job of it than this shambles from the French. But I don't know if it's an island thing, or a colonial hangover, but there is a nasty and ignorant superiority complex that runs through the English psyche, it's displayed in our chants about the wars of the early 20th century (how many trophies have Germany, France and neutral Spain won since 1945 compared to us?), and anyone who tells themself the above video is just banter and not a symptom of deeply ingrained English racism/xenophobia is lying to themself. We condemn this lot when they cause trouble at our grounds, when they mob up and antagonise foreign cities, we clamour for excuses, I know I've done it myself over the past week. Sorry to rant, have followed the fan violence closely on here, other forums and youtube/twitter the last few days. Wanted to make my comments and VT is by far the best football forum I visit. If I'd been any good at football I'd have qualified for England, ROI, Wales and Northern Ireland, so I have taken the maximum time off for the Euros to get pissed UTV Edited June 16, 2016 by icouldtelltheworld 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) And if anyone local to Brum wants proof of English ignorance, read the Birmingham Updates post about 5 (I believe) refugee families arriving in Brum a day or two (from facebook, not sure if he posts elsewhere). A majority of ignorant, hateful posts over welcoming/understanding ones. The comments from regular Brummies, many with AVFC in their profile picture or profile name, made me utterly sick. Edited June 16, 2016 by icouldtelltheworld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holtern8 Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) Icouldtelltheworld , that sounds like a copy and paste from the Guardian! (not a good thing!) You don't like following England because of this? Well pretty much since 2000 following England you will be surrounded by Tarquin's from the home counties eating their prawn sandwiches. And this is why there is no atmosphere in the Premier League matches as well. At least this clowns have some passion about their country. That said I'm not condoning them most as they are mostly idiots, but you've got to have passion in football. If only a happy medium could be found.....I believe at club level that happy medium is the ultra scene which has gained in popularity in recent years. Non-violent, they just like to make lots of colourful noise. Edited June 16, 2016 by Holtern8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) No I love supporting England, just wish i didn't sometimes feel marginalised by our support. Am aware my post sounds very Guardian liberal-lefty which is far from my views and intention. Just believe we need a serious conversation about why our support attracts almost the biggest group of idiots and we insist on antagonising others. Very hard to sound neutral with my view, and I believe the English fans have been **** over in France, but we won't get to the bottom of our problems unless we can accept that the English had a part in the disorder alongside the Russians, French ultras and discriminatory police. Consider myself an England fan and hope you don't think I'm rejecting that, but hope you can understand given the video above and where my family is from that i sometimes feel uncomfortable. Hope I haven't insulted you and I hope England go as far as we can, but we have a long way to go to bury our demons IMO and FWIW with my family being republican Northern Irish, and me being Birmingham born and raised I often feel uncomfortable with their view towards the English team/public/fans etc. Just for balance Edited June 16, 2016 by icouldtelltheworld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted June 16, 2016 Administrator Share Posted June 16, 2016 9 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Watch the video that's all I say mate Okay, I've watched it. Same question. How can you tell they are refugees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 5 minutes ago, limpid said: Okay, I've watched it. Same question. How can you tell they are refugees? On the same basis how can you tell they are not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 8 hours ago, Butterfingers said: Firstly, whilst it probably makes better reading for you to say "4-5 year olds", hey really aren't are they? Secondly, having just watched the video again, everyone is rolling coins underarm, however 1 bloke does throw 2 coins overarm. He was aiming for distance. You've obviously focussed on that in your quest to find something bad to moan about. I'd say that if he meant an ill will, he would have hit one of the kids. As for throwing it on the floor, I saw it as a bit of a game for the kids to chase the coins. Try not to be so judgemental of people I have absolutely no idea what your talking about with your first sentence Aiming for distance?? Wow really now your just clutching at straws. I "am obvious on a quest to find something to moan about" your hilarous, that is a absolutely ridiculous statement. England fans are so innocent aren't they again in more trouble last night so I think I wont give them the benefit of the doubt there. A game now was it some people just want to defend England fans even when they do disrespectful things. I don't know about you but if i see kids begging or a homeless person i don't throw coins at them I hand it to them. In fact when I was in Riga this child approached me asking me for money and instead of giving him money I went into Mcds and brought him a happy meal instead. Bit different to throwing money at kids like they are peasants and beneath you. I can be as how i want thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 16, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 16, 2016 28 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: On the same basis how can you tell they are not? How can you tell they are not cyborg children from Mars? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted June 16, 2016 Administrator Share Posted June 16, 2016 37 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: On the same basis how can you tell they are not? I'm not claiming that they are not. You used the word "refugees" and I don't see how you can tell by looking at someone whether they are a refugee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 some videos describe them as refugees some videos describe them as Roma could just be kids some people just see happy local children playing a safe mutually enjoyed coin tossing game with the nice harmless tourists out on a cultural exchange to assess the mood in europe ahead of casting their referendum vote I'm edging more towards the first three than the fourth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: On the same basis how can you tell they are not? Are you **** serious? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 56 minutes ago, limpid said: I'm not claiming that they are not. You used the word "refugees" and I don't see how you can tell by looking at someone whether they are a refugee. I would assume by the video title, neither me you or stevos cyborgs from mars know for sure if they are or not as we are not there. I am going based on what the video title was. if evidence says otherwise that they are not I am happy to put my hands. But I dont agree with butterfingers point of view that this was innocent england fans being nice to little kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 It's a crying shame, that after years of decent support (with admittedly, the odd flashpoint here and there) Engerland fans have regressed into a tribe of yobs. It's pathetic. I know they've been targeted by the Russians over the first week of the tourno due to our 'proud' history of hooliganism but a section of the fans now appear to want to live up to that reputation. I hope every chair chucking, bottle throwing, racist chanting nob over there (be it English, Welsh, Russian or whatever) gets banged up, loses out on a shed load of cash they've spunked going over there and banned from watching live football. I find it utterly embarrassing and makes me hate the beautiful game. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 17 minutes ago, theboyangel said: It's a crying shame, that after years of decent support (with admittedly, the odd flashpoint here and there) Engerland fans have regressed into a tribe of yobs. It's pathetic. I know they've been targeted by the Russians over the first week of the tourno due to our 'proud' history of hooliganism but a section of the fans now appear to want to live up to that reputation. I hope every chair chucking, bottle throwing, racist chanting nob over there (be it English, Welsh, Russian or whatever) gets banged up, loses out on a shed load of cash they've spunked going over there and banned from watching live football. I find it utterly embarrassing and makes me hate the beautiful game. Kiss our chances of hosting world cup any time soon goodbye. I just hope no terrorist attack occurs. The police are so busy dealing with these idiots that leave the country wide open for attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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