kurtsimonw Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I suppose the English were at fault for the German and Ukraine fans fighting, 100s of miles away, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: I suppose the English were at fault for the German and Ukraine fans fighting, 100s of miles away, as well. Yes-It's the English disease don't you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Forget the Russians cant see them bothering with teh English now, I have a bad feeling its going to kick off with the Welsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2016 There'll be scuffles between Russians and Ukrainians (Crimea river) on the streets no doubt. Cue twitter moaning at UEFA not implementing the suspended ban even though it only relates to inside the stadium, because y'know, details are so passé. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'm sure there will be English vs Welsh scuffles too, but I'd be surprised if it's anywhere near as bad as it was last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 42 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: I'd love Russia to play good old "everbodies friends" the Irish and see if people claimed that attacking these people was "fighting back" I at first with what media i received thought here we go England and have shifted my position with further information. I feel for most of the Engalnd fans out there and do not believe they deserve it or anything. What the Russians did was a disgrace, even more so by the MPs condoling their fans actions. I believe that alot of what has happened is due to Englands reputation and not their actions. Again, i do not agree any middle aged men should get the shit kicked out of them for supporting England. However if you want to continue with your comparisons with Ireland, i dont think you would find the same scenarios. IMHO Ireland fans would not sing antagonizing songs to the city they are in and their police, posture up at the local riot police or throw bottles at them. I take it you are under the belief the French police tear gassed England fans who were just sitting and drinking in pubs with maybe a few casual songs? Again, my stance for clarity, i believe most England fans are completely innocent and definitely do not deserve the beatings from local Ultras and Russians. I also believe that there are others who IN SOME instances are not fully squeaky clean but still do not deserve being attacked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'm sure there will be English vs Welsh scuffles too, but I'd be surprised if it's anywhere near as bad as it was last week. For me, last week is as bad as it could have got. I've ben round the block with the Villa. I was in the middle of the Brussels riot, the crush at Oxford and many horrible incidents in the 70's. Apart from 1 incident at Newcastle where the old travellers club coaches were battered as soon as they got off the coaches, nothing has come anywhere near last weekend, The cowardice, the bullying and level of violence was at a new level for me. I find it unbelievable that there are so many clueless people who still think that we are somehow to blame. Those injured, including the 50 year old who is unlikely to ever recover could quite easily have been any one of us off here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, zak said: I at first with what media i received thought here we go England and have shifted my position with further information. I feel for most of the Engalnd fans out there and do not believe they deserve it or anything. What the Russians did was a disgrace, even more so by the MPs condoling their fans actions. I believe that alot of what has happened is due to Englands reputation and not their actions. Again, i do not agree any middle aged men should get the shit kicked out of them for supporting England. However if you want to continue with your comparisons with Ireland, i dont think you would find the same scenarios. IMHO Ireland fans would not sing antagonizing songs to the city they are in and their police, posture up at the local riot police or throw bottles at them. I take it you are under the belief the French police tear gassed England fans who were just sitting and drinking in pubs with maybe a few casual songs? Again, my stance for clarity, i believe most England fans are completely innocent and definitely do not deserve the beatings from local Ultras and Russians. I also believe that there are others who IN SOME instances are not fully squeaky clean but still do not deserve being attacked. You never seen the Irish in London then, I take it? The police in Marseille stood back and watched the English get battered. They then indiscriminately fired tear gas at them. Are you surprised a few retaliated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I suspect any trouble we have with the Welsh will at worst be as bad as you'd get on a normal Saturday night when one drunken idiot looks at another drunken idiot's pint in the wrong way. Possibly even some naughty chanting. One or two isolated incidents maybe, nothing on the scale of organised assaults orchestrated by fighters who've been training for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: Those injured, including the 50 year old who is unlikely to ever recover could quite easily have been any one of us off here. Probably brought it on himself because of fights in the 80s. I often flagelate myself in repetence for Britain's involvement in slavery. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I suspect any trouble we have with the Welsh will at worst be as bad as you'd get on a normal Saturday night when one drunken idiot looks at another drunken idiot's pint in the wrong way. Possibly even some naughty chanting. One or two isolated incidents maybe, nothing on the scale of organised assaults orchestrated by fighters who've been training for it. but will the lens police try and stop the naughty chanting with tear gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: You never seen the Irish in London then, I take it? The police in Marseille stood back and watched the English get battered. They then indiscriminately fired tear gas at them. Are you surprised a few retaliated? This is where I think the reporting was very unfair. It showed England fans and Russian fans mid-fight. The reporting and the inference being that one was as guilty as the other. If you are set upon in any aspect of your daily life, you may have to physically defend yourself. But the violence was used in order to give the viewing public exactly what they wanted and expected to see. "Oh look. England fans at it again." Well if you've just been ambushed and staying seated results in a coma then wtf else will you do? Thankfully, as the week progressed, the prevailing narrative has been that this was very much Russia's fault. England now needs to go on the charm offensive. As I say hopefully starting with the Welsh match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: You never seen the Irish in London then, I take it? The police in Marseille stood back and watched the English get battered. They then indiscriminately fired tear gas at them. Are you surprised a few retaliated? Irish in London when? The video here (from different cameras and has a jumbled timescale) you can see at the end a chair thrown at the Police, which jumps back to the timeline prior to tear gas. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/10/england-fans-violence-marseille-police-european-championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: but will the lens police try and stop the naughty chanting with tear gas? Only if we boo the national nathem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) World Cup 2018 with Germany, England, USA and Ukraine qualifying is going to go smoothly. Especially with Russian politicians so against violence. Edited June 14, 2016 by kurtsimonw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: World Cup 2018 with Germany, England, USA and Ukraine qualifying is going to go smoothly. Especially with Russian politicians so against violence. come on we all know the power of football will have ended racism and violence in russia by 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, zak said: Irish in London when? The video here (from different cameras and has a jumbled timescale) you can see at the end a chair thrown at the Police, which jumps back to the timeline prior to tear gas. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/10/england-fans-violence-marseille-police-european-championship An interesting quote from that link: "Ian King, 53, a farmer who has travelled with his son Darcy, 18, to watch the game, said they had been teargassed three times during the day. “But there was no need for it,” he said. “Yes, the fans are boisterous and singing. But the French police react by marching in and firing off teargas.” You, iike others have omitted the minor detail that Marseille thugs had targeted the pub. Do you think that reasoning with them would have diffused the situation? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Maybe the French simply are not used to it? I imagine there's more distance to travel for games there and as such, away followings aren't as strong. Here, you have anti*insert city/team name* songs sung by away fans who travel in the thousands and there rarely seems to be any need for riot police and tear gas. They probably see a few thousand fans singing as "aggressive" and overreact to it. Which in then will obviously piss off the fans and it escalates from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: An interesting quote from that link: "Ian King, 53, a farmer who has travelled with his son Darcy, 18, to watch the game, said they had been teargassed three times during the day. “But there was no need for it,” he said. “Yes, the fans are boisterous and singing. But the French police react by marching in and firing off teargas.” You, iike others have omitted the minor detail that Marseille thugs had targeted the pub. Do you think that reasoning with them would have diffused the situation? I dont know and i dont think England Fans deserved being attacked. I know throwing chairs and bottle at police would not help diffuse a situation though. What do you think the French Police wanted to happen, how did they intend to diffuse the situation Edited June 14, 2016 by zak added second line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 For every man added to a group the vowel to consonant ratio is shifted in favor of vowels until communication is reduced to its most primal form. Such are the mathematics of mob mentality. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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