Roberto Di Matteo

[avfc456]

2 minutes ago, terrytini said:

But they appointed RDM ?

And if, as some are clearly now of the view, he is hopeless, shouldn't those questions be being asked already ?

So by your thinking if we don't win on Saturday RDM still being here means we have a clueless Manager, clueless Owner, clueless C Exec ?

Getting bleak eh ?

Or maybe they aren't all clueless and see the need for more time ?

I wouldn't mind RDM getting more time if I was seeing signs of improvement, but IMO we seem to be getting worse.

If we slip into the bottom 3 then the trigger has to be pulled 

At this moment in time 1 win regardless of spend I feel is totally unacceptable 

[terrytini]

And I wouldn't mind the "If we see signs of improvement" argument (its fair enough in itself) if we were judging over a longer period.

I totally agree things seem to be getting worse.

But it's a few hours of football.

I've seen millions of examples of Teams getting worse, then better and so on.

All the arguments would be valid but its too soon to judge.

We could get a lot better in the next 3/4 games just as easily as we got worse.

Odd how many said it would "be a rollercoaster" yet now seem to be expecting a smooth journey.

[ender4]

9 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Odd how many said it would "be a rollercoaster" yet now seem to be expecting a smooth journey.

Though it hasn't been a rollercoaster yet... 22% of the season gone and its just been a one-way direction.

[Godders]

3 hours ago, Richard said:

We aren't getting promoted this year.  RDM Is incapable of getting 60% win ratio anyway. If we want promotion in the next two years the sooner we replace rdm the better . New manager can use all our games as "check" games

Not specifically directed at you Richard, but in general I must admit I'm a bit confused, so hopefully someone can clarify for me...

We want to sack RDM after 10 games apparently because we're not getting promoted this season. We want to do this now so that the new manager can use the rest of this season to evaluate the squad and go for promotion next season.

What I'm confused about is why there's a different standard for the new manager than there is RDM? Why does the new manager get most of a season before we start expecting to see promotion form when RDM only gets 10 games? 

By my simple logic, sacking RDM now should mean that the new manager is judged after 10 games too. If we're not seeing an average 2 points per game, then the new one should go as well. And so on and so forth.

If we're willing to give a new gaffer the best part of a season before expecting promotion, then we should be giving RDM the same amount of time IMO.

[terrytini]

18 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Though it hasn't been a rollercoaster yet... 22% of the season gone and its just been a one-way direction.

I'm referring to the performances rather than the results.

[Richard]

16 minutes ago, Godders said:

If we're willing to give a new gaffer the best part of a season before expecting promotion, then we should be giving RDM the same amount of time IMO.

i can see the logic.  I guess it depends upon whether or not you think RDM is good enough.  I don't

I never expected promotion this season anyway by the way,  I just dont think he is good enough for us

[Godders]

10 minutes ago, Richard said:

i can see the logic.  I guess it depends upon whether or not you think RDM is good enough.  I don't

I never expected promotion this season anyway by the way,  I just dont think he is good enough for us

Ah ok. You don't think he's good enough, therefore he doesn't deserve any time to prove otherwise. Gotcha.

[Richard]

Or I do not think he is good enough and the time he has had so far proves it,  to me.

Which is another and way of looking at it.

[Godders]

14 minutes ago, Richard said:

Or I do not think he is good enough and the time he has had so far proves it,  to me.

Which is another and way of looking at it.

A perfectly valid stance, since I assume that if we had a manager you did think was good enough, you would be quick to change your opinion of him and would be loudly calling for his head if he also averaged a point a game from his first 10 games.

Personally, I think 10 games is far too soon to pass judgement.

[KSV]

I think it's too early too but what is frustrating n e is he keeps making the same mistakes and doesn't appear to learn from them. He also appears to have no idea how to Fix it. 

[markavfc40]

37 minutes ago, Godders said:

49 minutes ago, Richard said:

i can see the logic.  I guess it depends upon whether or not you think RDM is good enough.  I don't

I never expected promotion this season anyway by the way,  I just dont think he is good enough for us

Ah ok. You don't think he's good enough, therefore he doesn't deserve any time to prove otherwise. Gotcha.

Mate I think it is perfectly logical that if someone felt Di Matteo was the wrong appointment in the first place that results over the first 11 games wouldn’t have convinced them otherwise and they would still think he was the wrong man and still not want him.

If however you thought Di Matteo was the right man in the  summer then you may well think that 11 games isn’t long enough to make you change your mind and you want to allow him longer.

For what it is worth I was somewhere in the middle on all this in that despite some doubts I was happy to back him and see how things went. So far, based on results and recent performances, I am leaning heavily towards the doubts I had about him unfortunately being correct and those that felt he was the wrong man in the summer were indeed right.

Edited September 29, 2016 by markavfc40

[PaulC]

3 hours ago, briny_ear said:

If he's going to be sacked, it's important to do it in good time for a new manager to come in, assess the squad, and prepare the ground for a productive January window. 

Another window. The last thing we need is to sign a a load more players and try and move on the ones we got. If a new manager comes in he needs to be told he has to work with the current players and not expect much funds in January. 

[Dodgyknees]

It'd be nice to have a season which isn't a mess.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

i can see the logic.  I guess it depends upon whether or not you think RDM is good enough.  I don't

I never expected promotion this season anyway by the way,  I just dont think he is good enough for us

Really? 

 

And there was me assuming you'd opened up the 'Next Manager' thread out of irony....

[Godders]

48 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Mate I think it is perfectly logical that if someone felt Di Matteo was the wrong appointment in the first place that results over the first 11 games wouldn’t have convinced them otherwise and they would still think he was the wrong man and still not want him.

Not if that person would give a preferred manager more time after the same run of results as RDM has had over the same number of games. That's not logic, that's confirmation bias.

If people can honestly say that they would be clamouring for a new manager after 1 win, 7 draws and 2 losses regardless of whether they originally rated the incumbent or not, then that's absolutley fair enough.

Wanting RDM out now because they didn't want him to begin with to give somone else the best part of a season to find their feet though is pretty unreasonable IMO.

[markavfc40]

10 minutes ago, Godders said:

Not if that person would give a preferred manager more time after the same run of results as RDM has had over the same number of games. That's not logic, that's confirmation bias.

If people can honestly say that they would be clamouring for a new manager after 1 win, 7 draws and 2 losses regardless of whether they originally rated the incumbent or not, then that's absolutley fair enough.

Wanting RDM out now because they didn't want him to begin with to give somone else the best part of a season to find their feet though is pretty unreasonable IMO.

Well I can see the logic. Lets just say I felt RDM was an absolutely crap manager before he took over then 1 win in 11 and I am likely to be convinced that me thinking he was crap was correct and I am still not going to want him.

If however I felt RDM was the bees bollocks before he took over then the fact he had a poor start may well leave me thinking I am happy to give him a fair bit longer to prove that he is the manager I thought he was when he took over.

That to me isn't confirmation bias that is just you having an opinion of some one before they take over and that opinion either being backed up by results or being questioned by them. If I am wrong then fair enough.

Bottom line is it is hardly a surprise that fans who never wanted him will be clamouring for him to get the push after a poor run of results earlier than those who were happy he was appointed.

[AvfcTheObsession]

I always thought he was more of a 'glamour' appointment. Won the CL, speaks well and several different languages, wears a smart suit. Whereas I felt we needed more of a rough and ready type who could rebuild and get us back to basics at the same time. We haven't done the basics for years, and we still aren't doing them. I'd like to give RDM a bit more time (the 5 games in October), but if Preston is a disaster on Saturday I may wish to revise that.

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Another window. The last thing we need is to sign a a load more players and try and move on the ones we got. If a new manager comes in he needs to be told he has to work with the current plaiyers and not expect much funds in January. 

We need to strengthen midfield. That seems obvious from our performances so far and I certainly hope Dr Tony doesn't suddenly go all Lerner on us after such a short time owning us and having created such massive expectations when he first arrived.

[tinker]

51 minutes ago, AvfcTheObsession said:

I always thought he was more of a 'glamour' appointment. Won the CL, speaks well and several different languages, wears a smart suit. Whereas I felt we needed more of a rough and ready type who could rebuild and get us back to basics at the same time. We haven't done the basics for years, and we still aren't doing them. I'd like to give RDM a bit more time (the 5 games in October), but if Preston is a disaster on Saturday I may wish to revise that.

You could add Sherwood and Remi to the glamour appointment list as well. They come from fashionable clubs who the press like, their appointments are then met with praise from them or at least no questions. We need a young hungry manager who has fought their way up through hard work and getting results with the hand they have been given.

Without kicking a ball this season I found the recruitment of so many offensive players questionable. The outgoings in midfield, Gana couldn't be helped but the loaning out of Sanchez and Veretout? Bringing in a 32 year old, an injury prone player and a player who has never looked close to getting a game for us despite being here for years? The keeper situation, paying so much for a young keeper who had no experience of playing in English football, a big risk? 

These risky decisions have not worked, there not 10 game decisions, they hurt the club for years and RDM has been allowed to make them. 

On the pitch we look leaderless and lack character for a fight, this comes from the manager. Substitutions, striker for a midfielder when protecting a 1-0 scoreline, with 10  minutes to go, away from home? Playing players out of their natural positions to shoe horn them into the team because the players recruited do not play in positions where we need them to?

I want to be wrong and for it all to come together but there are plenty of questionable decisions been made. I would love to know the answers to a few of them before I decided where we was going and who was leading us there

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

We need to strengthen midfield. That seems obvious from our performances so far and I certainly hope Dr Tony doesn't suddenly go all Lerner on us after such a short time owning us and having created such massive expectations when he first arrived.

Yes maybe one  midfield player.