The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[snowychap]

Beeb:

Quote

Theresa May is planning to hold a series of votes in Parliament to find out what kind of Brexit MPs will support, sources have told the BBC.

The prime minister was previously thought to be against this idea.

But sources say she wants the votes planned for the third week of January based on her Brexit deal to be a "moment of reckoning".

It comes as the cabinet announced it was stepping up preparations in case there is a no-deal Brexit on 29 March.

The Brexit deal Theresa May has reached with the EU has to be passed by Parliament but most MPs - including many on her own side - are against it.

She had been planning to present Parliament with a choice between her deal and no-deal, hoping that enough MPs would swallow their objections and get behind her version of Brexit.

But MPs are showing few signs of changing their minds - with some hoping that the next step after her deal being rejected would be leaving without a deal, others hoping for a fresh referendum and some backing alternative deals like the ones Norway or Canada have with the EU.

So rather than wait for what seems like an inevitable defeat, she is thought to be planning a new approach.

The prime minister does not believe any of the factions criticising her plan have enough support to get their own version of Brexit through Parliament.

By allowing them to put forward their proposals and vote on them, she is hoping they will be defeated and her plan will emerge by a process of elimination as the best and only alternative to leaving without a deal.

...more on link

So would this be: resumption of meaningful vote debate => indicative votes => meaningful vote ?

 

[mjmooney]

Idiocracy. 

[StefanAVFC]

10 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Idiocracy. 

Kakistocracy

[markavfc40]

So we have a Government spending billions preparing for a no deal brexit that their own analysis has told them will be catastrophic to the economy and lead to GDP being 10% lower than it otherwise would have been had we remained in the EU. You couldn't make this up.

[snowychap]

 

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

 

The best thing about this clown talking about 'owing his constituents' is he represents a constituency that voted overwhelmingly to leave (61%) and on the opinion poll map that @bickster posted a few pages back, is one of only a handful in the country that back a no deal! 

[bickster]

16 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

The best thing about this clown talking about 'owing his constituents' is he represents a constituency that voted overwhelmingly to leave (61%) and on the opinion poll map that @bickster posted a few pages back, is one of only a handful in the country that back a no deal! 

Grease-smog represents a remain constituency, one that has always been a remain constituency and he's the one that said all the remainer Tory MPs should vote the way of their constituents wishes. Hypocrites all over the place

Corbyn represents the most ardent remain constituency in the country, his Islington turf was something like 80% remain

 

EDIT: He said owe not own

[Stevo985]

Any chance they are just pushing the very real possibility of No Deal to scare (some) Brexiteers into realising staying in is a better option?

[markavfc40]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Any chance they are just pushing the very real possibility of No Deal to scare (some) Brexiteers into realising staying in is a better option?

I doubt it. I think it is being pushed to convince MP's that want another referendum/to remain to vote for her deal for fear of what may happen if they don't.

[brommy]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Any chance they are just pushing the very real possibility of No Deal to scare (some) Brexiteers into realising staying in is a better option?

Yes. I also think there are some remainers who might consider supporting the May/EU agreement for fear of a hard brexit and some leavers who might support the May/EU agreement for fear of a second referendum. Nowhere near enough for the May/EU agreement to pass on the first vote but I suspect May will have something else up her sleeve to pressure those MPs in an ‘11th hour’ second vote.

[LondonLax]

4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

If it weren't for my unsettled status in my current home, and employment, I'd be thinking the same.

I will be fine, or at least not hugely hit by this, as I have a decent job and prospects.

**** em, let em rot.

The EU have announced there will be a grace period for UK nationals living abroad to get their residency status sorted out. 

Have you looked at the requirements for a work visa in Poland? 

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

The best thing about this clown talking about 'owing his constituents'

He said, "... I owe my constituents and my colleagues total clarity about my position."

[StefanAVFC]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

The EU have announced there will be a grace period for UK nationals living abroad to get their residency status sorted out. 

Have you looked at the requirements for a work visa in Poland? 

Nope, because I never considered No Deal would be a possibility. I'll speak with my English colleagues when I get back from Christmas.

[blandy]

11 hours ago, peterms said:

Yes they should.  They also need to be seen to fall back on the second referendum only when other avenues have been exhausted.  However, a faction within the PLP wants to jump to that position immediately, either because they don't care about the very real problem of maintaining support in areas where lots of Labour supporters voted leave, or because they see it as a way of undermining the party's leadership, or both.

The other avenues have been exhausted. Corbyn recognises he can’t win a vote of no confidence,  and therefore a general election is off the table. There’s an almost shut window for anything else to be done. And you’re talking again about people who are wanting to put their party, or it’s leader, or both behind in the priority list as though they are the problem. They’re not. It’s the rigid followers of the whip, the acolytes of Corbyn, of May that are the problems. Two appalling leaders, sure, but the numpties who enable them are culpable too. 

[peterms]

7 hours ago, brommy said:

Yes. I also think there are some remainers who might consider supporting the May/EU agreement for fear of a hard brexit and some leavers who might support the May/EU agreement for fear of a second referendum. Nowhere near enough for the May/EU agreement to pass on the first vote but I suspect May will have something else up her sleeve to pressure those MPs in an ‘11th hour’ second vote.

Yes.  Get remainers to support her deal by appearing to countenance no deal.  Get no dealers to think that public opinion could be swayed towards a referendum by fear of what no deal means in practice.  Make both groups accept that they may hate her deal but the alternative may be something they hate even more.

Always keep a-hold of Nurse for fear of finding something worse.

She needs time to let this play, hence the postponement of the vote and sending everyone home on holiday.

[peterms]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

Corbyn recognises he can’t win a vote of no confidence,  and therefore a general election is off the table.

The likeliest route to  VOC is the DUP parting company with May.  That is still possible.  A GE is not off the table, depending on what happens in the period up to the vote.

[peterms]

Mad Nad channelling Thelma and Louise.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, peterms said:

The likeliest route to  VOC is the DUP parting company with May.  That is still possible.  A GE is not off the table, depending on what happens in the period up to the vote.

It pretty much is off the table, but let’s assume/ pretend you’re right and that May loses the vote on Jan 14th. Now there will also be votes on 6 amendments, as yet to be chosen, but likely to include a Norway type option and a people’s vote option. At that point, at that moment of voting Labour needs to have a position. It needs one now. At the time of the vote a GE remains a remote possibility. So what does Labour and Corbyn do? His position is exposed as as bonkers as that of May. The flakey dreaming idiot cannot handle the real world. Pipe dreams are his thing. Anyway back to the timing, say you’re right and May loses, and thanks to Corbyn’s extreme ambivalence no option, no amendments get accepted. Say there’s shortly afterwards  a VONC. Say the DUP. reverse their detestation of Corbyn and his chum’s united Ireland outlook (they won’t, there’s more chance of JRM becoming a remainer), but say your point overcomes that delusion and May loses a VOC. it’s now mid Jan. there has to be at least 6 weeks election run up, realistically it’ll be closer to 7 or 8 weeks. Corbyn isn’t PM yet, May is. so an election happens in early is March. What’s he campaigning on?  It’s clearly not remain, it can’t credibly be a People’s vote, because as you’ve said, that comes behind his dream of Labour doing a jobs first (Pah!) Brexit. How he’s going to get that with maybe  a week till we crash out? By cancelling article 50 is the only way to even start that. Once/ if he cancels it, then he either has to U turn on his Yes to Brexit, or he has to re-invoke A50 to stay true to his beliefs (mad as they are on Europe). He’s as dead as May, if not more so, either way.

His deluded claimed plan cannot work, even if we ignore the humongous unlikelihood of the DUP voting for Corbyn. 

Edit. Apparently if the govt loses a VOC there is only a GE if it then loses another one within 14 days, so the timetable is even worse. Corbyn’s alleged “plan” is even less credible than I thought .

[LondonLax]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

It pretty much is off the table, but let’s assume/ pretend you’re right and that May loses the vote on Jan 14th. Now there will also be votes on 6 amendments, as yet to be chosen, but likely to include a Norway type option and a people’s vote option. At that point, at that moment of voting Labour needs to have a position. It needs one now. At the time of the vote a GE remains a remote possibility. So what does Labour and Corbyn do? His position is exposed as as bonkers as that of May. The flakey dreaming idiot cannot handle the real world. Pipe dreams are his thing. Anyway back to the timing, say you’re right and May loses, and thanks to Corbyn’s extreme ambivalence no option, no amendments get accepted. Say there’s shortly afterwards  a VONC. Say the DUP. reverse their detestation of Corbyn and his chum’s united Ireland outlook (they won’t, there’s more chance of JRM becoming a remainer), but say your point overcomes that delusion and May loses a VOC. it’s now mid Jan. there has to be at least 6 weeks election run up, realistically it’ll be closer to 7 or 8 weeks. Corbyn isn’t PM yet, May is. so an election happens in early is March. What’s he campaigning on?  It’s clearly not remain, it can’t credibly be a People’s vote, because as you’ve said, that comes behind his dream of Labour doing a jobs first (Pah!) Brexit. How he’s going to get that with maybe  a week till we crash out? By cancelling article 50 is the only way to even start that. Once/ if he cancels it, then he either has to U turn on his Yes to Brexit, or he has to re-invoke A50 to stay true to his beliefs (mad as they are on Europe). He’s as dead as May, if not more so, either way.

His deluded claimed plan cannot work, even if we ignore the humongous unlikelihood of the DUP voting for Corbyn. 

Edit. Apparently if the govt loses a VOC there is only a GE if it then loses another one within 14 days, so the timetable is even worse. Corbyn’s alleged “plan” is even less credible than I thought .

I might have miss read somewhere but I thought I saw an EU type saying the EU would do the UK a favour and extend A50 in the event of a GE to allow the UK some time to get their house in order before rejoining the negotiation table.

Having said that, I couldn’t say if the offer still stands this late in the day or if the person I read about making the offer actually had the authority to do so. 

[OutByEaster?]

I think it would be fair to ask the EU to extend the deadline on the triggering of A50 until the UK parliament has come to agreement on the way forward. Do you think they'd agree to 2055?