mjmooney Posted December 29, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted December 29, 2017 Adonis. He's not just a pretty face, then. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAboutTheFinish Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Baron Adonis of Camden Town, if ever there was a poster boy for the metropolitan elite...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 10 hours ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said: Baron Adonis of Camden Town, if ever there was a poster boy for the metropolitan elite...? ...it would look something like this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) Tony Blair giving his views on Brexit Quote Tony Blair has attacked Labour's "timidity" on Brexit, saying it would deliver a departure from the EU designed by the "Tory right". He urged the party he once led to "nail" the "myths" of the Brexit campaign - and fight for the rights of voters to "think again" about leaving. He told the BBC it was not "undemocratic" to call for a vote on the terms of an exit deal. Edited January 4, 2018 by Seat68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 To add to the JC list of 'told you so', how prescient was this? 3rd June 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 hour ago, darrenm said: To add to the JC list of 'told you so', how prescient was this? 3rd June 2016 Twitter and Jeremy Corbyn , why not throw a weekend cyclist in full kit just to really complete my day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 6, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2018 4 hours ago, darrenm said: To add to the JC list of 'told you so', how prescient was this? 3rd June 2016 I think many, many, people said and thought exactly the same - I'm fairly sure for example that you did. I mean it's not exactly nostradamus level to say or think that the tories are not keen on Unions, workers rights, environmental protection and so on, or that they're a bunch of bumbling incompetents full of their own pompous sense of self-importance, who mess everything up. They've always been like that (though admittedly the current lot are probably worse than any previous version). What I find disappointing is having said all that, that Labour isn't fighting to back it up. But we've gone over that bit before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 hour ago, blandy said: I think many, many, people said and thought exactly the same - I'm fairly sure for example that you did. I mean it's not exactly nostradamus level to say or think that the tories are not keen on Unions, workers rights, environmental protection and so on, or that they're a bunch of bumbling incompetents full of their own pompous sense of self-importance, who mess everything up. They've always been like that (though admittedly the current lot are probably worse than any previous version). What I find disappointing is having said all that, that Labour isn't fighting to back it up. But we've gone over that bit before... You know that Labour aren't the government? And that they don't have a majority? And even if they thought **** it lets lose 50% of our vote but push remaining then there's absolutely nothing they could do anyway? What does 'fighting' mean in practical terms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 4 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Twitter and Jeremy Corbyn , why not throw a weekend cyclist in full kit just to really complete my day 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2018 Well for a friggin start of it means not saying "We're going to respect this wishes of the vote we are leaving the EU"... times up on Labour's bullshit. The majority of the membership doesn't support Brexit, the VAST majority of it's MPa were remain, 48% of the population even in the stupid vote didn't support it and most of us suspect the percentage has flipped to majority remain yet we still get the same old bollocks of respecting the referendum. Why? because they want the working class racists to vote for them. It shithouse politics and quite frankly if they want those voters so badly they can have them, they won't have mine Here's a clue what the opposition should be doing, it's in their official title... opposing! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 6, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2018 50 minutes ago, darrenm said: You know that Labour aren't the government? And that they don't have a majority? And even if they thought **** it lets lose 50% of our vote but push remaining then there's absolutely nothing they could do anyway? What does 'fighting' mean in practical terms? No, I had no idea Labour wasn’t the government. And didn’t have a majority. But I do suspect that they’re going to lose a lot of their potential vote through their standpoint of being pro leave, pro leaving the single market and for supporting the tories on things like invoking article 50 . I’m sure I read that the majority of labour voters were pro remaining, though I suppose it’s hard to know for sure I just feel that even aside from almost all Labour MPs being of the belief that leaving will be bad, and that the same (to a lesser degree) is the case for labour voters and members, that even if you (I ) accept the referendum result means we have to leave, that fighting means standing by what Corbyn said about jobs and rights and environment and that means staying in the single market, which is not Corbyn’s position. I’m sure I’ve posted before, probably more than once about abandoning their “sit on the sidelines and snicker while the tories pork it up” approach, and instead lay out clearly what they believe and stand for on yurp . “Jobs based Brexit” but leaving the single market is incoherent nonsense. Squaring the circle isn’t easy, but to me it doesn’t look like they’re trying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 hours ago, blandy said: fighting means standing by what Corbyn said about jobs and rights and environment and that means staying in the single market, which is not Corbyn’s position. I’m sure I’ve posted before, probably more than once about abandoning their “sit on the sidelines and snicker while the tories pork it up” approach, and instead lay out clearly what they believe and stand for on yurp . “Jobs based Brexit” but leaving the single market is incoherent nonsense I asked what they can do in a practical sense. I can't see you've described that, unless you mean putting out a statement that they want to stay in the single market and customs union? What effect would that have? What do you think the statement would actually say? "We're not the government but if we were we would choose to stay in the single market, but we aren't going to be because there's no general election for 4 years" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, darrenm said: I asked what they can do in a practical sense. I can't see you've described that, unless you mean putting out a statement that they want to stay in the single market and customs union? What effect would that have? What do you think the statement would actually say? "We're not the government but if we were we would choose to stay in the single market, but we aren't going to be because there's no general election for 4 years" ? There is 1 practical thing I can think of but it's risky and could go either way. If they submit an amendment to keep single market and customs union membership they will probably get the same Tories willing to rebel so it'll go through. Every right wing paper will go into hyper attack mode the likes you've never seen before. But evidence has shown that strengthens the youth vote anyway so they may well gain as much as they lose. No-one's worse off and we're guaranteed to be staying in the single market. Or it could backfire, a single Tory not rebelling could have it not work, the vast majority of remainers who aren't especially bothered but just want to see politicians get on with it will join the leavers at expressing their disgust at democracy being undermined, Labour's vote share plummets, the Tories call another snap election and get some seats back so they don't have the DUP noose around their necks and can push everything through unhindered. It's probably too risky as it's very unlikely we can leave the customs union anyway, because Ireland won't accept any border with infrastructure, which a customs border has to be, and if the customs border is moved to the Irish sea, the DUP bring down the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 7, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2018 These vast majority of remainders who aren’t particularly bothered.... I’m yet to meet one. I meet a lot of random people on a weekly basis. I’m yet to meet a single person who identifies as what you’ve described 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 6 hours ago, bickster said: These vast majority of remainders who aren’t particularly bothered.... I’m yet to meet one. I meet a lot of random people on a weekly basis. I’m yet to meet a single person who identifies as what you’ve described Seems like almost everyone I know. I'll try to find some research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 7, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2018 11 hours ago, darrenm said: I asked what they can do in a practical sense. I can't see you've described that, unless you mean putting out a statement that they want to stay in the single market and customs union? What effect would that have? What do you think the statement would actually say? "We're not the government but if we were we would choose to stay in the single market, but we aren't going to be because there's no general election for 4 years" ? I dunno how many more ways I can pit this. at the moment the Tory government stance on Europe is wholly incompatible with reality. It’s a destructive mess. Red lines, N. Ireland border, cake and eat it...etc. I don’t think anyone would dispute that. at the moment labour’s position on Europe is wholly incompatible with reality and is inconsistent and seemingly a bit dynamic. You highlighted Corbyn’s speech in 2016 saying good things about jobs, workers rights, the environment etc. We know labour slogans that it wants a jobs based Brexit. We know that labours position is to leave the single market, we know that labour has on more than one occasion whipped its MPs to support the tories on Brexit. in practical terms what labour needs to do is first abandon sloganeering and get a coherent position, I.e.. remain in the single market, which would also solve the border problem. This is anyway what their MPs believe, apart from the minority Corbynites. Then they need to work with MPs from all other parties to win on that position. That means instead of rejecting co-operating and talking with others http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-jeremy-corbyn-criticised-cross-party-meeting-eu-a8145736.html Quote Jeremy Corbyn has come under fire for refusing to attend a cross-party summit of MPs aimed at keeping the UK in the EU single market. Political opponents said the Labour leader was “utterly pathetic” and “failing millions of working people” by continuing to argue that Britain should quit the trading bloc after Brexit. The Scottish National Party (SNP) accused Labour of “siding with Tory extreme Brexiteers”..... More on link. so practically, get a coherent, credible, genuinely held position that can be consistently argued, work with other party’s MPs to bolster that course of action and continue the Kier Starmer led critiquing and exposure of the tories disasterous path. But it will mean Corbyn and his chums getting his head out of his arse, so I’m not holding my breath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 7, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7, 2018 Politicians are now afraid of the mob. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 7, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, mjmooney said: Politicians are now afraid of the mob. Yes, that seems to be true. Too many timid careerists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, blandy said: I dunno how many more ways I can pit this. Like what I've asked? With practical suggestions? You're continuing to say the same thing which is just rhetoric. 'fight them', 'hold a position'. Doesn't mean anything. The example I posted above would be a practical suggestion, would you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 36 minutes ago, darrenm said: Like what I've asked? With practical suggestions? You're continuing to say the same thing which is just rhetoric. 'fight them', 'hold a position'. Doesn't mean anything. The example I posted above would be a practical suggestion, would you agree? He's refused to meet with the other parties that oppose the tory agenda to even discuss what could be done. He's going to be empty chaired. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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