bickster Posted October 13, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2017 22 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: A poll of 1,000 Sky customers, conducted by text. Solid. It was a stupid question in the first place. Something along the lines of... Would you prefer No Deal or a Bad deal? Yep that's not weighted at all, no bias in that whatsoever.. utterly contemptible EDIT: Wonder what the result would have been if the question was... Would you prefer No Deal or a Good Deal. Totally different you'd imagine 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 52 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: A poll of 1,000 Sky customers, conducted by text. Solid. Would a poll of pseudo left wing intellectuals have been more to your liking ? What is does is continue trends / data from other polls , take for example a poll by the. LSE & oxford uni which claims 68% of voters polled want led a hard Brexit , it also concluded These results indicate that despite the impression given across the press and from politicians of a deeply divided nation, when voters think of the actual details of what they want from Brexit, neither group is that distinct – and generally they lean towards a harder Brexit. But I’m sure it will be easier to dismiss them as little englanders or something .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 13, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2017 It's entirely possible for a majority of people to be stupid of course. It's why we're here now after all. (Replace stupid with 'ignorant' or 'misinformed' depending on your mood/compassion/understanding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chindie said: It's entirely possible for a majority of people to be stupid of course. It's why we're here now after all. (Replace stupid with 'ignorant' or 'misinformed' depending on your mood/compassion/understanding) Thats why we pay and elect informed MP'S. So we don't get decisions which on the face of it may look a good idea - but when you get to the practicalities it isn't such a good idea. A bit like when you drive passed a used car garage and see a shiny sports car for £900 'wow I LL HAVE THAT" - on closer inspection though its done 160k, the exhaust is falling off, its had about 19 owners and you can't easily get spare parts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 52 minutes ago, bickster said: It was a stupid question in the first place. Something along the lines of... Would you prefer No Deal or a Bad deal? Yep that's not weighted at all, no bias in that whatsoever.. utterly contemptible EDIT: Wonder what the result would have been if the question was... Would you prefer No Deal or a Good Deal. Totally different you'd imagine Well I’d assume that bias is down to how negotiations appear to be heading ... as Andrew Neil said yesterday we appear to have offered some concessions , what concessions have the EU offered ? ( waits for replies of they don’t have to as we are insignificant etc ) so , if the choice came down to bend and take the one sided deal the EU appear to want ... or walk away with no deal ,what would you prefer ... hence the loaded question I’d be very surprised if a good deal was on the table that hard Brexit became an option ... though you’d have to define the terms of “good deal” to some extent ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 13, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2017 A better question than this no deal bad deal one would be 'is no deal better than the deal we have now'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Would a poll of pseudo left wing intellectuals have been more to your liking ? What is does is continue trends / data from other polls , take for example a poll by the. LSE & oxford uni which claims 68% of voters polled want led a hard Brexit , it also concluded I'm always quite surprised at how most people I talk to who voted leave (not that I know many people who did) say they want a hard brexit. They seem to have no idea whatsoever what that means but it sounds the most revolutionary and disruptive so that's what they choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, Chindie said: It's entirely possible for a majority of people to be stupid of course. It's why we're here now after all. (Replace stupid with 'ignorant' or 'misinformed' depending on your mood/compassion/understanding) Presumably had the majority voted remain none of the above would have applied ? there is a common theme from the remain people which seems to be belittle people who didn’t agree with them , I understand these people think their life is ruined and might feel angry but you don’t know how they came up with their view or their decision in the same way we don’t know why some remain people voted stay either perhaps to paraphrase one of my fav shows a fairer way to view it is , “opinion is divided on the matter , everyone else says one thing and I say another “ ... ok everyone else in this instance is only 52% (of votes) but divided opinions don’t make people any less informed ,intelligent etc ( well in the blackadder example it’s acrualy the minority who are misinformed , but you get the idea ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, darrenm said: I'm always quite surprised at how most people I talk to who voted leave (not that I know many people who did) say they want a hard brexit. They seem to have no idea whatsoever what that means but it sounds the most revolutionary and disruptive so that's what they choose. I don’t doubt some do , and I suspect the more the discussions get portrayed as the EU being “unreasonable “ you’ll get more people expressing that view .... I think Portilo spoke sense last night really , a deal will get done but it could be at the 59th minute of the 11th hour and could be governed by what other events the EU are having to deal with at that time be it Italian banks , Greece , migration ....the trade deal is kinda simple , citizens rights is pretty much agreed you just have to get the tricky stuff out the way first like the money and Ireland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 54 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Would a poll of pseudo left wing intellectuals have been more to your liking ? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 11 hours ago, colhint said: I just have to question you about point 1. During the EURO crisis which began I think in 2009, several projects were cancelled or postponed, particularly in the poorer states where they couldn't afford to pay their side of the bargain. So I am wondering, they were all penciled in, and yet because of the state of the Euro were either cancelled or postponed. Now this had nothing to do with the UK. Why didn't they happen. They were penciled in. But the EU stopped them. If the money wasn't there then, the money won't be there in 2019. So why should we be expected to pay for all projects penciled in if the EU doesn't keep it's side of the bargain? Which EU projects were cancelled in 2009? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 30 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: the trade deal is kinda simple Is it? On what basis do you make this assertion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 13 hours ago, tonyh29 said: in the meantime Edna came in with his opinion and apparently those of all of Germany *Enda Nah, I was repeating my German friend's comment on the likelihood of Brexit influencing matters in the German elections/national debate. He said nobody really cares. Sure check it out yourself: look at welt.de or handelsblatt.com or bild.de and look around for "Brexit". It's there, of course, but not really on the radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: though you’d have to define the terms of “good deal” to some extent ... Go on then. You want all this to change, what are you proposing to change it to? Let's hear your terms Ideally with a bit more detail than just "something mutually advantageous that benefits both etc..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Possibly not 100% on topic but so brilliant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Leavers (public figures, prominent media) continuing to perpetuate this myth that anyone who is against Brexit is a traitor or an enemy is seriously dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 46 minutes ago, Enda said: *Enda Nah, I was repeating my German friend's comment on the likelihood of Brexit influencing matters in the German elections/national debate. He said nobody really cares. Sure check it out yourself: look at welt.de or handelsblatt.com or bild.de and look around for "Brexit". It's there, of course, but not really on the radar. yeah and to a degree why would it be , same way I don't suppose we'd care much about the results of a French GE etc .. I think for German business you'd get a different answer , I think there , there is some interest ,maybe even concern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 53 minutes ago, snowychap said: Is it? On what basis do you make this assertion? my bad , I was kinda paraphrasing Portilo's comments on This week late night rather than expressing my own view that it would be easy per se but to a degree , I guess all the trade agreements are already in place as they are currently agreed by all 28 ... that it becomes 27 with the one coming out shouldn't see too much disagreement I guess ... hey remember that deal we had to let you sell your Cheese that we like and we sell you that cheese that you like ... shall we just agree to continue to do so ..... yeah I know it's not THAT simple and another nation could say hey if we get tariffs on UK cheese we can sell more of our inferior stuff to the rest of Europe etc ... The Danes have kinda come out and said they want to move forward on a trade deal (or could ironically be a rogue foreign minister speaking out of turn !!) , or that it's everyone's interest to agree one , as have a few other nations , so I think that's where the relatively easy assertion springs from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 13, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: my bad , I was kinda paraphrasing Portilo's comments on This week late night rather than expressing my own view that it would be easy per se but to a degree , I guess all the trade agreements are already in place as they are currently agreed by all 28 ... that it becomes 27 with the one coming out shouldn't see too much disagreement I guess ... hey remember that deal we had to let you sell your Cheese that we like and we sell you that cheese that you like ... shall we just agree to continue to do so ..... yeah I know it's not THAT simple and another nation could say hey if we get tariffs on UK cheese we can sell more of our inferior stuff to the rest of Europe etc ... The Danes have kinda come out and said they want to move forward on a trade deal (or could ironically be a rogue foreign minister speaking out of turn !!) , or that it's everyone's interest to agree one , as have a few other nations , so I think that's where the relatively easy assertion springs from That easy trade deal... What happens when Britain decides it can make that cheese with some new process that uses chemicals the EU bans? But it's more profitable? Or some US company uses our 'great new trade deal' to push a substandard product via a new UK subsidiary? Rinse and repeat for every **** product imaginable. It's not just about tariffs. The Danish comments the Leave vote has smugly tossed itself off to over the last few days had a follow up they conveniently ignore, where the same bloke said it was in Denmark's interest to be united with the EU27 position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 13, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Presumably had the majority voted remain none of the above would have applied ? there is a common theme from the remain people which seems to be belittle people who didn’t agree with them , I understand these people think their life is ruined and might feel angry but you don’t know how they came up with their view or their decision in the same way we don’t know why some remain people voted stay either perhaps to paraphrase one of my fav shows a fairer way to view it is , “opinion is divided on the matter , everyone else says one thing and I say another “ ... ok everyone else in this instance is only 52% (of votes) but divided opinions don’t make people any less informed ,intelligent etc ( well in the blackadder example it’s acrualy the minority who are misinformed , but you get the idea ) Well, evidently. I'll happily belittle stupid decisions. I'm not going to sit back and respect a stupid choice, especially when that decision will affect me, and even more so when that decision was made from a clearly ignorant position (which it was). I just do not respect it. And I have loved ones that voted Leave. They don't escape that ire. They were completely ignorant of what they voted for and that made a stupid decision. The idea that the wider Leave vote wasn't ignorant is completely stupid. I did a **** degree in this shit and I don't know it inside out, or even close to its full extent. But I know more than most people about it. And yet a small majority decides they understand enough to change the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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