colhint Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 ok what have they been rattled about. I mean America just moved to the right and most Europeans think he's a clearing in the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 38 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I'd imagine the satisfaction of seeing us having to go back with our tail between our legs will be enough to see them welcome us back with open arms. Exactly this. Your wife says she's leaving you and you say ok your choice. She changes her mind so do you say 'too late' or do you think of all the washing you'll have to do and the lack of sex and say OK then while being smug? (Sorry for the ridiculously misogynist metaphor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2017 We've had a decade of faltering economies, foolhardy political 'solutions' like austerity, terrorism, never ending war... People's lives have been shit and the world appears to be going wrong for them with little they can do about it. Given the opportunity they went with change to one degree or another, regardless of whether it would really help or whether it would actually directly be in their interests. The fact the Yanks went with Trump just supports this argument. They don't care about the EU but they still went with right wing populist promising the moon on a stick. It's not about the EU. It's about people struggling for a huge variety of reasons, number 1 being an enormous economic collapse and a botched recovery, globally. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 People voted to disrupt. They voted against whatever they thought they were being told to vote for. With Trump and Brexit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, darrenm said: Exactly this. Your wife says she's leaving you and you say ok your choice. She changes her mind so do you say 'too late' or do you think of all the washing you'll have to do and the lack of sex and say OK then while being smug? (Sorry for the ridiculously misogynist metaphor) Your wife, who's always been lording it over you and wanted to be treated like a princess says she's leaving you and as she does so she attacks your lack of prowess in the bedroom and her sister pokes her head round the door and says also she said you've got a small dick and you smell. Your wife packs her bags slams the divorce papers on the table and says how much she's looking forward to **** around and she's heard how great your neighbour is... You hire a lawyer and the divorce gets messy and expensive and you're worried about the kids and it starts to affect your job. After a year or so of stress because your wife just won't agree to terms she comes back and you sit down and she says actually your neighbour isn't such a good guy and the **** around didn't work out but she still doesn't love you and never did but it's better for her if she stays with you but she kinda would prefer it if you still treat her like a princess. You think about the washing and the worry and a little bit of stability but she's still **** you around for 18 months... ...is probably a better way of putting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, Chindie said: We've had a decade of faltering economies, foolhardy political 'solutions' like austerity, terrorism, never ending war... People's lives have been shit and the world appears to be going wrong for them with little they can do about it. Given the opportunity they went with change to one degree or another, regardless of whether it would really help or whether it would actually directly be in their interests. The fact the Yanks went with Trump just supports this argument. They don't care about the EU but they still went with right wing populist promising the moon on a stick. It's not about the EU. It's about people struggling for a huge variety of reasons, number 1 being an enormous economic collapse and a botched recovery, globally. slow down there, didn't France recently vote for Hollonde on anti austerity recently and kicked him into touch, as soon as possible? He had visions of anti austerity for Europe, didn't he. He pretty much went the same route as Corbyn want's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, darrenm said: People voted to disrupt. They voted against whatever they thought they were being told to vote for. With Trump and Brexit. So what about the French , Germans and probably Austria. Why would they vote to disrupt their countries over brexit or Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Just now, colhint said: So what about the French , Germans and probably Austria. Why would they vote to disrupt their countries over brexit or Trump To disrupt the status quo that wasn't working for them. Nooo, not a shit band joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, darrenm said: People voted to disrupt. They voted against whatever they thought they were being told to vote for. With Trump and Brexit. I’m not sure there ... Trump maybe but Brexit has been festering for a good few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Chindie said: Your wife, who's always been lording it over you and wanted to be treated like a princess says she's leaving you and as she does so she attacks your lack of prowess in the bedroom and her sister pokes her head round the door and says also she said you've got a small dick and you smell. Your wife packs her bags slams the divorce papers on the table and says how much she's looking forward to **** around and she's heard how great your neighbour is... You hire a lawyer and the divorce gets messy and expensive and you're worried about the kids and it starts to affect your job. After a year or so of stress because your wife just won't agree to terms she comes back and you sit down and she says actually your neighbour isn't such a good guy and the **** around didn't work out but she still doesn't love you and never did but it's better for her if she stays with you but she kinda would prefer it if you still treat her like a princess. You think about the washing and the worry and a little bit of stability but she's still **** you around for 18 months... ...is probably a better way of putting it. Or somewhere in the middle :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: To disrupt the status quo that wasn't working for them. Nooo, not a shit band joke. Whatever you want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I’m not sure there ... Trump maybe but Brexit has been festering for a good few years With the MPs yeah. Joe Whitevan couldn't care less until David Cameron started telling him to vote remain because leave would be really bad for his tax haven mkay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2017 14 minutes ago, colhint said: slow down there, didn't France recently vote for Hollonde on anti austerity recently and kicked him into touch, as soon as possible? He had visions of anti austerity for Europe, didn't he. He pretty much went the same route as Corbyn want's France hasn't been immune to the issues around the West. He was on charge, things didn't get better (because, in part, nowhere did) and also because he and his government bungled everything. The French binned him. They didn't quite lose their minds go full Brexit with Le Pen, but they picked change. Change is the point. Things have been crap. Given the chance, the populace goes for change. Sometimes that isn't the right choice. Sometimes they fall for rhetoric. Sometimes they are lied to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, Chindie said: France hasn't been immune to the issues around the West. He was on charge, things didn't get better (because, in part, nowhere did) and also because he and his government bungled everything. The French binned him. They didn't quite lose their minds go full Brexit with Le Pen, but they picked change. Change is the point. Things have been crap. Given the chance, the populace goes for change. Sometimes that isn't the right choice. Sometimes they fall for rhetoric. Sometimes they are lied to. I suppose you are right, things have been crap for a decade or so. People have tried to change things. I mean in the last 10 years we have tried to change Austerity to non Austerity France being the perfect case. We have had 3 US Presidents, Dems and Republicans, most Eu Countries have had a change of leader. And yet, still things are crap for europeans. I suppose the only things which have remained constant during this period of crapness for EU citizens are Angela Merkel and the EU itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, colhint said: I suppose you are right, things have been crap for a decade or so. People have tried to change things. I mean in the last 10 years we have tried to change Austerity to non Austerity France being the perfect case. We have had 3 US Presidents, Dems and Republicans, most Eu Countries have had a change of leader. And yet, still things are crap for europeans. I suppose the only things which have remained constant during this period of crapness for EU citizens are Angela Merkel and the EU itself. Am I wrong to take this to imply its their fault somehow? Because... Well... It was s global crisis that caused this, at the fundamental basis of the economy, the banks, in the biggest economy in the world, coming undone at the seams in a way that thundered through the whole world, and particularly the West. And it isn't easy to fix. Or may not be possible to fast track a fix. Certainly not when governments made it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, bickster said: Most of the people I know is a very very small unrepresentative sample of the population for the vast majority of people in the U.K. it’s no basis of anything. in my case we’d never have left, remain would have won by such a huge margin, if it were down to the people I know The only truly representative sample of the population opinion was the referendum. My reply was in response to the naive belief that a significant proportion of leave voters were influenced by the newspapers. Without a referendum asking if this is so, I based my reply on talking to around 80 to 100 family, friends and work colleagues. Around 3 in 4 voted leave but in any case, not many read newspapers. Perhaps your work and social group may have more newspaper readers than mine but if that's true it negates the result was significantly 'influenced by newspapers' argument. The significant point in the post you quoted was that it is incorrect to believe that the younger demographic will automatically keep the same opinions as they grow older. Edited October 15, 2017 by brommy taking to talking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 2 hours ago, ml1dch said: I respectfully disagree. I respect your difference of opinion more than it appears you respect the opinions of leave voters. There appears to be a lot of naivity and/or ignorance why both sides of the debate chose to vote as they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, brommy said: I respect your difference of opinion more than it appears you respect the opinions of leave voters. I have no issues with differing opinions. It's when they are ignorant of the facts that I start to have a problem. If someone were to say "I think we should crash out of the EU because we have become politically infantilised and over-reliant on other people for both our democracy and our national sustainability, so although we will become poorer and more insular it will benefit the UK in the long-run" then I would disagree with them but at least they've given thought to what they want and are being intellectually honest. If they say "everything will be better because we will carry on as we are due to our regulatory equivalence and at the same time we can then go and get loads of new trade deals" then it's just factually wrong. There isn't an opinion to disrespect, it's just a jumble of things that they don't understand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 You need to be more optimistic realistic @ml1dch if this begins to go wrong the treasury will have to find more money, and if the supermarkets have higher prices for foreign food well our farmers will just have to grow more stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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