Awol Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: You should have seen the first draft! No need, 99/100 it's the same torturously smug blend of sarcasm and virtue signalling. Only thing that changes is the post count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 34 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: tbf I'm not seeing anyone in this thread say .. Corbyn is In therefore I'm out ... tbh other than his statement through clinched teeth the other week I'm not sure I've heard anyone from Labour actually say anything ? do they actually have anyone in the out camp ? The Vote Leave campaign is jointly headed by Birmingham's own Gisela Stuart (who was born and raised in Germany, funnily enough). This isn't especially related to the referendum, but I've always personally doubted her sanity since she came to an assembly at my (all boys) secondary school and spent her entire speech talking about how much better girls were as students in every way. Seemed like an odd choice of topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 i'm voting remain because i want a federal europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 19, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2016 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: I'm not sure I've heard anyone from Labour actually say anything ? do they actually have anyone in the out camp ? There's a handful, but my take on them is that they're not rabid about it. For whatever reason there seems to be a section of British people/politicians who see Yurp and the EU as the absolute number 1 most important thing. "WE MUST LEAVE" seems to be kind of burnt into their psyche. Nothing can get in the way. These politicians and their wealthy backers seem to be mostly, almost exclusively, very right wing. They mostly are not troubled by concerns over worker welfare, human rights, the environment, freedom of movement, and similar issues. The Labour and left wing out people seem to share the concerns over sovereignty and democracy, but at the same time they are concerned about worker welfare, human rights, the environment, freedom of movement etc. so that kind of tones down their levels of opposition. Most lefty people seem to feel the benefits (worker welfare, human rights, the environment, freedom of movement,...) outweigh the negatives, and that the EU stops are at least diminishes the ability of a right wing government to do wrong things, while recognising there is a democratic flaw in that situation. Does that make sense? or am I barking up the wrong tree? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 19, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Awol said: Reasoning was that UK only sees the EU as an economic marketplace and without us peeing in the soup they could get on with political integration and building the US of Europe. If they were to do that and actually get it right I'd be disappointed if we missed out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: If they were to do that and actually get it right I'd be disappointed if we missed out. Their track record isn't great. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, blandy said: ...the EU stops are at least diminishes the ability of a right wing government to do wrong things, while recognising there is a democratic flaw in that situation. Does that make sense? or am I barking up the wrong tree? Democracy is good as long as the people the left support are elected. If not the EU is a useful counter weight against democracy. Sounds like a Guardian editorial! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 19, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, Awol said: Their track record isn't great. Ha - I realise it's something of a long shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 19, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2016 Just now, Awol said: Democracy is good as long as the people the left support are elected. If not the EU is a useful counter weight against democracy. Sounds like a Guardian editorial! I dunno, I don't read their editorials. But I think it's the practicality/reality of it. There's a different but similar contradiction in the Out camp too. The rage against loss of sovereignty to the EU, whilst at the same time an eagerness to hand sovereignty to unelected trade agreement arbitration courts and big business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, blandy said: There's a handful, but my take on them is that they're not rabid about it. For whatever reason there seems to be a section of British people/politicians who see Yurp and the EU as the absolute number 1 most important thing. "WE MUST LEAVE" seems to be kind of burnt into their psyche. Nothing can get in the way. These politicians and their wealthy backers seem to be mostly, almost exclusively, very right wing. They mostly are not troubled by concerns over worker welfare, human rights, the environment, freedom of movement, and similar issues. The Labour and left wing out people seem to share the concerns over sovereignty and democracy, but at the same time they are concerned about worker welfare, human rights, the environment, freedom of movement etc. so that kind of tones down their levels of opposition. Most lefty people seem to feel the benefits (worker welfare, human rights, the environment, freedom of movement,...) outweigh the negatives, and that the EU stops are at least diminishes the ability of a right wing government to do wrong things, while recognising there is a democratic flaw in that situation. Does that make sense? or am I barking up the wrong tree? I think if you take stereotypes to the extreme then yes what you say makes sense but I'm not sure Labour can really own the high ground on human rights when they presided over rendition flights and tried to impose 28 days detention on a population and in effect remove fundamental rights to liberty so I don't really think I can agree fully agree with the sentiment 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 19, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2016 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: Labour can really own the high ground on human rights Fair point. Though I did say "lefty" and "Labour" rather than New Labour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 On 17/04/2016 at 10:51, snowychap said: I don't know why that would contradict anything that I said. I worded it wrong, apologies. Not a pop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Just received an email from our company CEO saying we should stay in Europe along with all the benefits staying in Europe will bring. (hardly surprising being as 12 of our 14 offices are in Europe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, KHV said: Just received an email from our company CEO saying we should stay in Europe along with all the benefits staying in Europe will bring. (hardly surprising being as 12 of our 14 offices are in Europe) If I was you I'd listen for your jobs sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 2 hours ago, KHV said: Just received an email from our company CEO saying we should stay in Europe along with all the benefits staying in Europe will bring. (hardly surprising being as 12 of our 14 offices are in Europe) Does the boss tell everyone how to vote in General Elections too? Those 12 offices will still be Europe after the vote, still doing business, still employing people and all that jazz. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 37 minutes ago, Awol said: Does the boss tell everyone how to vote in General Elections too? Those 12 offices will still be Europe after the vote, still doing business, still employing people and all that jazz. I raised similar in the early pages of this thread , think it was the CEO of BMW at that time John Longworth got suspended for telling Chamber of commerce member we should leave though that is slightly different as they are supposed to be neutral on the whole thing KHV .. If I were you I'd send a reply to your Boss telling him to piss of (politely) .... and clean up at any subsequent tribunal when you win the unfair dismissal case a few months down the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Dear Obama We promise not to burn down your White House again , you promise not to get involved in UK politics .. deal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Obama was bang on until he had to go and mention TTIP as being a good thing. We've already seen through it mate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I would have voted out if given the chance. We have 349 Mp's and more in the European Parliament. That number should be lower and local politician should be given more power. Free movement of goods and labour is easy to agree on for all european countries and the EU could be based on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 22, 2016 18 minutes ago, darrenm said: Obama was bang on until he had to go and mention TTIP as being a good thing. We've already seen through it mate. As a brief off topic aside, I listen to a US political podcast where i was interested to hear the hosts be critical of TTIP because it lets us do the same to them, as it does to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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