The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[bickster]

13 minutes ago, snowychap said:

 

Just imagine the carnet required for touring musicians, the music biz has been saying this since before the referendum. The older road crew remember what it used to be like. Every single item has to be listed, every single one, it's not just instruments, everything. A typical stadium Tour will have about 13 Artic's full of equipment, if not more.

Remember whan people said bands won't come here any more... THIS is one of the main reasons along with Home Office Visa requirements (Much harder if your skin isn't white experience tells us because non white people may never leave again)

WOMAD warned about the visa situation a couple of years ago, saying it was already affecting them

 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, snowychap said:

...Any discussion about any trading arrangements has to factor in everything that may make a difference - especially if they involve (adverse) changes to current trading arrangements.

The point about Rules of Origin are, according to the experts who talk about trade, free trade agreements, &c. all the time is that these things are very much overlooked when people talk about free trade agreements and reducing tariffs (goods still need to qualify for reduced tariffs agreed by FTAs because of the Rules of Origin always contained within them).

Definitely. It's not just a case of two blokes agreeing down the pub to come to an acceptable arrangement over a lodger leaving their digs, or whatever. Leaving the EU and the ensuing terms and conditions on an immense range of incredibly detailed arrangements, agreements, treaties, terms and conditions has to be, by definition, also incredibly detailed with every conceivable option or arising covered off.

[Chindie]

...As some of us were saying years ago.

As for rules of origin... I had to attend a training seminar on international trading a couple of years ago. Rules of Origin was one part of it, done as a brief introduction to the concept and how it impinged on the other things we were there to discuss.

That brief introduction took an hour.

None of this stuff is simple. It's ludicrously nuanced and complicated in every tiny facet of everything that could possibly be of relevance.

[snowychap]

Huff Post:

Quote

A line in the government’s Get Ready for Brexit guidelines has caused a minor panic after it appeared to suggest taking a laptop into the EU for work purposes will more than £300 if Britain leaves without a deal.

The section on how to “take goods temporarily out of the UK” outlines the changes to customs in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

It states that an ATA Carnet, also known as a “Passport for Goods” and costing £326, will be required to avoid paying duty on goods you take into the EU for business reasons.

It then lists examples of the goods this applies to, including “laptops, cameras or sound equipment” and “personal effects and sports goods”.

...

But a spokesperson for HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) said no one should panic and the guidance – although not explicitly stated on the website – only applies to businesses moving lots of goods via trucks on a temporary basis, such as a large company needing to relocate and work in another EU country for a few months.

Individuals taking a laptop or similar item on a business trip to the EU and back will not be affected.

So in sum, freelancers relax.

...

There are a couple of things here: firstly, it would seem to support the point that Bicks makes above as I'd guess a band on tour would be very much the definition of a 'businesses moving lots of goods via trucks on a temporary basis'; secondly, this is just a response to a media question from 'a spokesperson for HMRC' - I'm not sure I'd be absolutely convinced that this would be definitive.

[markavfc40]

Been some really good posts in this thread recently but still can't help but feel many of us are missing the bigger picture here and the opportunity for us British to get the band back together.

 

[bickster]

It's not just remainers that want a final say anymore...

Quote

Voters in the North backing "final say" referendum on Brexit

A new survey suggests people in Oldham are among those who want to have a so-called "final say" on Boris Johnson's Brexit plan.

YouGov have polled voters across the Labour heartlands in the North, Midlands and Wales.

A majority would prefer to judge the final decision in the form of a new referendum - rather than risk leaving the decision to politicians. 
 
A total of 53 per cent of people would back a referendum compared to 23 per cent who would want the final say left to Parliament and 24 per cent who were "don't knows" - if the Prime Minister attempts to leave with No Deal.
 
This latest poll from YouGov, with a total sample size of more than 1,600 voters, also shows that it is not only people who backed Remain in 2016 who would want a new vote, but also 41 per cent of Leave voters.
 
And, even if the PM gets approval from the EU for his proposed Brexit deal, there is still overwhelming support for a final say referendum with voters in the North backing it by 48 per cent to 28 per cent. 
 
Peter Kellner, the past president of YouGov and one of Britain's leading pollsters, said:"It is clear that the public mood is hardening in favour of a People's Vote to decide whether Brexit should go ahead.
 
"For the past year, most poll questions relating to Brexit have produced modest leads for giving the final say to voters in a referendum. 

"Now, following the Supreme Court judgement, and as the Prime Minister prepared to put his revised proposals to Brussels, there are big leads for the public rather than MPs settling the issue.
 
"As far as the general public is concerned, democracy is no longer served by simply enacting the result of the 2016 referendum. 

"Today there is a far stronger sentiment that the best way forward is to ask the people again, once it is clear what specific form of Brexit is on offer - deal or no deal."

Oldham Evening Chronicle

[bickster]

So the LibDems have agreed not to stand against Domonic Grieve in Beaconsfield and the LibDems have gained another MP in Steven Dorrell

Its in a paywalled Times article so I can't be bothered linking it

 

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, bickster said:

So the LibDems have agreed not to stand against Domonic Grieve in Beaconsfield and the LibDems have gained another MP in Steven Dorrell

Its in a paywalled Times article so I can't be bothered linking it

 

He's a former MP who left Parliament in 2015, I believe. If it's the same one I think he stood as a CHUK-TIG candidate for the West Midlands for the Euro elections, so he ceased being a Tory early this year.

[HanoiVillan]

Interesting and useful data on UK economic performance post-Brexit, and evaluating the reality or otherwise of 'Project Fear':

 

[bickster]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

He's a former MP who left Parliament in 2015, I believe. If it's the same one I think he stood as a CHUK-TIG candidate for the West Midlands for the Euro elections, so he ceased being a Tory early this year.

Thanks, I didn't realise he'd stopped being an MP

[snowychap]

 

 

[peterms]

On 04/10/2019 at 12:57, tonyh29 said:

there seems to be a feeling of a race to the bottom in terms of standards  , why are we so sure that will be the outcome ?

A bit more in the Independent on this area.

Quote

Boris Johnson is scrapping a commitment by Theresa May to stick to EU rules on the environment, safety standards and workers’ rights – to raise his chances of getting a trade agreement with Donald Trump.

The “level playing field”, included in the Brexit deal negotiated by the former prime minister, was a commitment to abide by rules similar to the EU’s in exchange for market access.

But right-wingers in Mr Johnson’s new cabinet want the commitments downgraded to give the UK more flexibility to lower its standards for American goods.

EU officials say that British negotiators are particularly keen to jettison EU restrictions on genetically modified foods – a key demand of American trade negotiators. 

One EU official with knowledge of the Brexit talks suggested US trade officials appeared to have been in contact with British negotiators and told them standards would need to be slashed if there was any chance of a US trade deal.

Liz Truss, the international trade secretary, said scrapping the protections was “vital for giving us the freedom and flexibility to strike new trade deals and become more competitive”.

A cabinet source also told The Sun newspaper: “The level-playing-field promise has to go, and Boris is very clear about this.

“It would seriously restrict our ability to deregulate and do trade deals with other countries.”

 

[bickster]

The plan is, there is no plan

 

[chrisp65]

So this take it or leave it final offer that Johnson has put forward.

Turns out he’s asking the EU to start to negotiate on it.

Or else.

We really are just a shambles at the moment. We need switching off and switching on again because right now, we just can’t be taken seriously.

[peterms]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

The plan is, there is no plan

 

It's a good job there was a wide table between them.  She must have been sorely tempted to grab him by the lapels and shake him, or perhaps slap some sense into his blank, lifeless face.

[NurembergVillan]

On 05/10/2019 at 11:25, Mic09 said:

I am not British myself so I am interested to hear from UK or Irish based fans. This is a topic that I need to read into more as my knowledge is limited. Any reading material and opinions would be appreciated.

Why is a hard border such a major issue for the Irish? Some people talk about it as if it was re-igniting the war. Does it have to be like that?

I understand that it would go against the good friday agreement, however are some people going overboard with how fragile the situation is in Ireland right now and how badly a border might affect it? Isn't a border simply driving up in the car, getting your passport checked and carrying on? 

I posted this back in August, but it's worth popping here to help give you some context -

On 21/08/2019 at 13:45, NurembergVillan said:

Something that hasn't received enough coverage in the ongoing talk about the Irish border / backstop is the potential for a return to real, genuine terrorism in the UK.

All the ISIS bollocks in the media is largely fear-mongering, certainly compared to what the IRA and the UVF have got up to in the past.

This is worth 20 minutes of your day.

 

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

Within the economics profession Patrick Minford is generally regarded as a complete and utter clown. Pathetic that the BBC give him so much time and fail to call him out on his nonsense.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss

[peterms]

18 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Within the economics profession Patrick Minford is generally regarded as a complete and utter clown. Pathetic that the BBC give him so much time and fail to call him out on his nonsense.

It is necessary to apply balance, which is why they have carried so many interviews with noted climate scientist Nigel Lawson.

[bannedfromHandV]

30 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Within the economics profession Patrick Minford is generally regarded as a complete and utter clown. Pathetic that the BBC give him so much time and fail to call him out on his nonsense.

It’s almost as though he fits an agenda that the BBC find palatable.......one could say......

 

[peterms]

More on those US food safety standards, this one from a year ago.

Quote

Insect-filled chocolates, rat hair-infested noodles, and orange juice containing maggots are just some of the “horrors” UK consumers could be forced to accept if post-Brexit Britain signs a wide-ranging trade deal with the USA.

In the US, producers adhere to a “Defects Levels Handbook,” which sets out the maximum number of foreign bodies like maggots, insect fragments and mould that can be in food products before they are put on the market.  

For example, US producers are allowed to include up to 30 insect fragments in a 100g jar of peanut butter; as well as 11 rodent hairs in a 25g container of paprika; or 3mg of mammalian excreta (typically rat or mouse excrement) per each pound of ginger.

In the EU there are no allowable limits for foreign bodies in food products..

...

Caroline Lucas, ex-leader of the Green party and supporter of the People's Vote campaign, added: “This is the gruesome reality of the US trade deal being touted by Liam Fox as one of the great benefits of leaving the EU.

“Under the government's disastrous Brexit, we will finally be free to eat all the maggot-ridden food we like. No-one voted for a Brexit that waters down the safety and hygiene of our food - but that's what the government is pursuing.”

'The US actively dislikes many existing EU measures'

Trade secretary Liam Fox has denied the UK will lower its food standards after Brexit, but has not ruled out changing standards in order to strike new trade deals with countries around the world. 

However, Sam Lowe, a trade specialist at the Centre For European Reform, predicted that the US would want the UK to move away from EU food standards and much closer to its own in any future free trade deal negotiation...

...

So what surprises could UK consumers expect to find in food imported from the US after Brexit?

Rat hair and faeces

US food law allows traces of rodent in a variety of foods. For example, producers are allowed up to 11 rodent hairs per 25 grams of paprika and cinnamon; 4.5 hairs per 225 grams of noodles; and 4 hairs per 25 grams of curry powder.

It's not just hair. US producers will also get away with mammalian excreta (mammal faeces) in their food, usually from rodents. You could find up to 3 milligrams per pound of ginger and 10 milligrams per pound of cocoa beans.

Maggots

A UK-US free trade deal could lead to maggots hiding in some of your favourite food products. US producers are currently allowed one maggot per 250 millilitres of citrus juice — like orange and apple juice — and two per 100 grams of tomato juice.

You could also find two maggots for every 100 grams of the tomato paste used on pizzas.

Insects

In the US, the law allows up to 30 insect fragments per 100 grams of peanut butter; 60 insect fragments per 100 grams of chocolate; and up to 100 per 10 grams of nutmeg. 

Worms

The US also allows worms and caterpillars in food products. However, there are rules.

For example, only three per cent of canned peaches and five per cent of currants can be infested with or eaten into by worms...

 

I for one appreciate the chance for UK citizens to supplement their protein intake in this way, at no extra charge to them.  It's one of the hidden benefits of Brexit.