The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[tonyh29]

25 minutes ago, peterms said:

More on those US food safety standards, this one from a year ago.

 

I for one appreciate the chance for UK citizens to supplement their protein intake in this way, at no extra charge to them.  It's one of the hidden benefits of Brexit.

 

Here’s  a different view

 What the FDA is saying in setting levels is that these are "action levels", the limits at which FDA will regard the food product "adulterated" - subject to enforcement action under Section 402(a)(3) of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act. In other words, anything above the levels specified is open to prosecution without any further consideration. 

But that does not mean that the FDA is setting tolerance limits. That is not the case. Rather, if natural levels of contamination do not exceed the levels, producers are spared automatic prosecution – as long as they are taking all necessary measures to reduce the levels. 

This is set out very clearly in the introduction, where the FDA states that poor manufacturing practices may result in enforcement action without regard to the action level. 

In fact, this brings the US very much into line with UK practice where "due diligence" is a statutory defence to a charge of selling contaminated food. If producers can prove that they have taken all reasonable steps to avoid the contamination, they cannot be found guilty of an offence.

 

[peterms]

57 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Here’s  a different view

 

Well, I find it hard to reconcile his argument that there is no practical difference in the way the UK and US deal with food contamination, with the reported levels of poisoning in the two countries:

Quote

• The US reports higher rates of illness from foodborne illness than in the UK. Annually, 14.7% (48m) of the US population suffer from an illness, versus 1.5% (1m) in the UK. This is nearly ten times the percentage of population. [see note 3 below]
• The US reports higher rates of deaths from foodborne illness than in the UK. The annual death rate in the US is 3,000 per annum, versus 500 in the UK. [The US population is about 5 times the size of the UK.]
• The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report around 380 deaths in the US each year attributed to foodborne salmonella poisoning. The most recent epidemiological lab data from Public Health England, 2006 to 2015 shows no deaths in England and Wales from salmonella. Salmonella food poisoning is most commonly caused by consumption of contaminated food of animal origin, such as beef, chicken, milk, fish or eggs.

If there is no practical difference in the approach to food contamination, what can account for such different outcomes?

I see Mr North was once Ukip's top candidate in Yorkshire, and shared an office in Strasbourg with Mr Falange.  I wonder if he is concerned to present a purely evidence-based assessment of the issues here, or whether he is making more of a political case?

[ml1dch]

6 minutes ago, peterms said:

I see Mr North was once Ukip's top candidate in Yorkshire, and shared an office in Strasbourg with Mr Falange.  I wonder if he is concerned to present a purely evidence-based assessment of the issues here, or whether he is making more of a political case?

The former. I can't think of a single person on either side of this debate with a more solid grip on actual evidence than Richard North. 

Particularly when it comes to food safety, as that's what he's spent nearly his entire professional career advising on.

His son is an obnoxious bell-end. But North sr. absolutely knows his stuff. 

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, peterms said:

I see Mr North was once Ukip's top candidate in Yorkshire, and shared an office in Strasbourg with Mr Falange.

He's also a climate change denier

[peterms]

16 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

The former. I can't think of a single person on either side of this debate with a more solid grip on actual evidence than Richard North. 

Particularly when it comes to food safety, as that's what he's spent nearly his entire professional career advising on.

His son is an obnoxious bell-end. But North sr. absolutely knows his stuff. 

I wonder then why he doesn't address what most people would see as a key issue in respect of food safety, ie the relative incidence of cases of food poisoning?  A bit hard to argue convincingly that the US system is a safe as ours without doing so.

[chrisp65]

BBC News speculating that if Johnson is voted out of office, he could employ a tactic of simply refusing to leave 10 Downing Street.

 

You know what, a big part of me would love to see that. How funny would that be!  Johnson literally holed up inside with all the press outside and Laura trying to coax him out with biscuits. Gaza rocking up with some chicken and a fishing rod. 

It would be the only truly fitting end to a Johnson premiership, finally tricked out by a sausage on a string after having declared they would never take him alive.

[Chindie]

Snigger.

[Chindie]

23 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

BBC News speculating that if Johnson is voted out of office, he could employ a tactic of simply refusing to leave 10 Downing Street.

 

You know what, a big part of me would love to see that. How funny would that be!  Johnson literally holed up inside with all the press outside and Laura trying to coax him out with biscuits. Gaza rocking up with some chicken and a fishing rod. 

It would be the only truly fitting end to a Johnson premiership, finally tricked out by a sausage on a string after having declared they would never take him alive.

Just get a blonde of negotiable affection and you wouldn't even need to waste the time putting a sausage on a string.

[chrisp65]

One way or the other, he’s going to be betrayed by his sausage.

[peterms]

I now have a disturbing image of him being led into the street with his sausage on a string.  I hope not to dream about it.

[chrisp65]

Out of curiosity, was there much coverage in any of the media of the march in Edinburgh yesterday?

Estimated 200,000 marched on some pro independence rally. But if it wasn’t for twitter I don’t think there was much coverage.

Agree or disagree, 200,000 is a decent number. Fairly confident if Brexit Party Ltd had got 200,000 to march through Stoke the BBC would have had live coverage from a full team of pundits.

 

[peterms]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

Out of curiosity, was there much coverage in any of the media of the march in Edinburgh yesterday?

Some photos in the Edinburgh Evening News, which also reported the organisers claiming 100k.

They had a story several days ago, before the event, saying the organisers expected 250k.

Police Scotland estimate 20k, but the polis always state far lower numbers than anyone else.

I wasn't aware of it myself until someone mentioned it on Saturday morning, and saw no evidence of either a march or any consequent disruption.

Checking google, most top links seem to be to foreign media, which I assume are going from press releases rather than sending people to observe.

My impression is that it was a bit of a damp squib, but perhaps it was more exciting for those who were there.

[chrisp65]

Yeah, guestimating the numbers on those things appears to be far more ‘art’ than science. The pictures I’ve seen it hasn’t looked like 100,000, but even if it was tens of thousands it feels more worthy of reporting than what Doris in Stoke thinks after every Brexit article.

The one I witnessed, I’d have said was around 3,000 people there (and I’m pretty good at guess the crowd when its a crowd between 500 and 1,000). The organisers said 6,000, the BBC said ‘hundreds’ and the police said they didn’t know! So I reckon my 3,000 was on the button.

 

[bickster]

4 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Agree or disagree, 200,000 is a decent number. Fairly confident if Brexit Party Ltd had got 200,000 to goosestep through Stoke the BBC would have had live coverage from a full team of pundits.

 

FTFY

[bickster]

Even Wee Jimmy can talk sense now and again

 

[bickster]

With the occaisonal talk of Trotskyite entryism in the Labour Party, has anyone done the maths of how many Lib Dem MPs are former Tory MPs? Heid Allen just added to the number and suggested there's at least 20 "One Nation" Tories wanting to do the same

[tonyh29]

5 minutes ago, bickster said:

With the occaisonal talk of Trotskyite entryism in the Labour Party, has anyone done the maths of how many Lib Dem MPs are former Tory MPs? Heid Allen just added to the number and suggested there's at least 20 "One Nation" Tories wanting to do the same

 Lib Dem’s support is already dropping in the latest polls maybe the 20 fancy early retirement 

 

[bickster]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

 Lib Dem’s support is already dropping in the latest polls maybe the 20 fancy early retirement 

 

It is and I'm supposing that is down to the Swinson / Corbyn thing, so it may force her hand a bit along with the pressure being applied by Wee Jimmy. On the other side Borish Penis' approval rating is rather on the slide too

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Even Wee Jimmy can talk sense now and again

 

This 'caretaker government' will never be formed, and it's now clear that it doesn't need to be. It's purpose was, in theory, to apply for an Article 50 extension and then call an election. It's now clear that Johnson will do both (or will possibly order a civil servant to write the extension request or some stupid theatrics like that, but the extension request will be sent). All that's left then, and the reason why this zombie conversation is still staggering on, is that opposition parties are now in 'election positioning' mode.

[peterms]

The tone reads like Cummings.

How Number 10 view the state of the negotiations

Quote

Earlier today, I sent a message to a contact in Number 10 asking them how the Brexit talks were going. They sent a long reply which I think gives a pretty clear sense of where they think things are.

So, in the interest of trying to let people understand where Number 10 reckon the negotiations are, here is their response: