The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[villakram]

https://video.foxnews.com/v/4998680232001/nigel-farage-rubbish-to-blame-brexit-for-stock-losses/?#sp=show-clips

Nigel Farage on Fox news. Educating America and adding swimming pools of fuel to the Trumpian fire.

[maqroll]

4 hours ago, blandy said:

Plan! Ha, ha, yes, very good.

Plan...Oi, listen to this one - this bloke here thinks the politicians had a plan, no seriously. No I know he's only kidding, but it's a good one, right?

Well someone's making money on this

[BOF]

11 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Well someone's making money on this

Oh someone made money alright.

George Soros, the billionaire who 'broke' the Bank of England, wins big from Brexit

 

The billionaire who predicted Brexit would bring about “Black Friday” and a crisis for the finances of ordinary people appears to have profited hugely from the UK’s surprise exit from the EU.

George Soros is widely known as the man who “broke” the Bank of England in 1992, when he bet against the pound and made a reported £1.5bn.

Although the exact amount Mr Soros has gained after Brexit is not known, public filings show he doubled his bets earlier this year that stocks would fall.

Read more

• David Cameron reportedly says 'Why should I do the hard s**t?' following Brexit resignation
• Brexit: 'Black Friday' for financial markets sparked by EU referendum vote
• Brexit: Moody's downgrades UK's credit outlook from 'stable' to negative'

Since the referendum, the value of shares, stocks and sterling have all been badly hit.

Mr Soros had also invested heavily in gold, which has soared in value following the Brexit vote to its highest level since March 2014, as investors sought safe assets.

Prior to the vote, the 85 year-old purchased $264m (£193m) of the world’s largest gold miner, Barrick Gold, and acqured options to buy the GLD exchange-traded fund, which tracks how much gold is worth.

Four days before the result of the referendum, Mr Soros wrote in The Guardian: “A vote for Brexit would make some people very rich – but most voters considerably poorer.

"I want people to know what the consequences of leaving the EU would be before they cast their votes, rather than after. A vote to leave could see the week end with a Black Friday, and serious consequences for ordinary people."

 

 

In 1992, Mr Soros' historic bet against the pound helped force the currency from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism as the pound lost 15 per cent of its value.

The business magnate, who was already worth about £18bn before the vote, is not the only investor who seems to have won big from the UK’s shock decision to leave the EU.

Crispin Odey, boss of Odey Asset management, gave financial backing to the Leave campaign and bet about £7.5bn of his firm's assets on Brexit happening. He has reportedly made more than £220m personally as a result of the vote to leave.

Mr Odey, one of the richest men in the UK, told Reuters: “I think I may be the winner. I’ve had a pretty tough year.”

He is one of the richest men in the UK, with a personal fortune of £900m. In 2014 it was reported Mr Odey built a Romanesque stone temple to house his chickens.

[Demitri_C]

2 hours ago, villakram said:

https://video.foxnews.com/v/4998680232001/nigel-farage-rubbish-to-blame-brexit-for-stock-losses/?#sp=show-clips

Nigel Farage on Fox news. Educating America and adding swimming pools of fuel to the Trumpian fire.

Whatever you think of farage, that's a great interview. He really did promote uk well and came across well

[blandy]

5 hours ago, Chindie said:

The EU is enacting the most basic form of game theory by using article 50 as a shit or get off the pot tool. You're either out and we deal with it from there, or you back down and problems at home are your making. The leaders aren't going to let us drag things out to our liking, and you also have to consider they will be at the table in the coming months - pissing them off further isn't probably a wise move.

Maybe, but equally from the UK side "our" actions have been kind of towards the flip side - i.e. start talking informally or we don't press the button. They can't stop "us" dragging things out. Pissing us off isn't in their interests any more than the reverse.

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, BOF said:

Crispin Odey, boss of Odey Asset management, gave financial backing to the Leave campaign and bet about £7.5bn of his firm's assets on Brexit happening. He has reportedly made more than £220m personally as a result of the vote to leave.

Sounds like a plan to me..

[Chindie]

41 minutes ago, blandy said:

Maybe, but equally from the UK side "our" actions have been kind of towards the flip side - i.e. start talking informally or we don't press the button. They can't stop "us" dragging things out. Pissing us off isn't in their interests any more than the reverse.

We hold the power to press or not of course. But dragging things isn't really to the benefit of anyone. There may be some necessity in so far as we've/Cameron decided to let another person take the poison chalice, but otherwise dragging it out isn't helpful from an economic standpoint for anyone.

And whilst it takes 2 to tango in the pissed off stakes, we've got more to lose, especially when the EU is already on the standpoint of wishing to prevent the spread of the contagion.

[blandy]

33 minutes ago, Chindie said:

We hold the power to press or not of course. But dragging things isn't really to the benefit of anyone. .... dragging it out isn't helpful from an economic standpoint for anyone.

And whilst it takes 2 to tango in the pissed off stakes, we've got more to lose, especially when the EU is already on the standpoint of wishing to prevent the spread of the contagion.

Yes and maybe not. There are pains to the EU if we delay, not least as you say the prospect of other nations possibly joining in the leave route. That's a chip we hold. So if we say start talking informally and we're not doing anything till you do, then that's a means of pushing towards a sensible course of action for both parties. Not delaying hurts the UK, because once we press go, the timer is on and we hold no cards.

I think realistically what has to happen is both sides need to decide what they each want to gain from the act of the UK leaving and then they need to informally talk it through with each other, before entering a formal stage. Neither will get all they want, perhaps, but both can get enough to make it work.

 Of course all that depends on the EU coming to a collective view and the UK getting someone in charge isn't a total effnugget.

Damn...

[OutByEaster?]

I think the EU have said "Go on then" and are currently sniggering into their hands, whilst we look for a way to save face or backtrack or do anything except actually leave and try to hide it from the people that voted in the referendum. I'm increasingly convinced that the Out we end up with will absolutely nothing like the Out that people voted for - it'll be an Apple with a sticker on it that says Orange.

 

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

On 6/23/2016 at 09:00, Chindie said:

I think Corbyn would more accurately described as being against some elements of the EU, he's not anti-EU as a concept. If the referendum was 'stay and leave as is or heavily restructure the organisation' he'd go for the restructure. But it isn't. It's stay or go and stay is closer to his politics than leave.

Exactly. We should have had a proper reform debate and not leave argument.

[tonyh29]

3 hours ago, maqroll said:

Well someone's making money on this

It has been rather amusing watching as the usually derided bankers are suddenly held up as proof that certain people were right all along .....even though they've been doing what they always do ......but we've seen quite a lot of hypocrisy and views tailored to suit arguments these past months 

 

[NulliSecundus]

6 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

But isn't that the same argument that the US gun lobby use to claim that the second amendment can't be changed, which Lefties tend to ridicule?

True. Although the EU's are probably a little less threatening to life. I also would say that my ability to one day up sticks and move to another country was one of the best things about being a EU member. It's a tricky one, personally. I would not want to lose our right to free movement, but it works both ways I'm afraid.

[LondonLax]

6 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

all be it they are slightly different things but the EU agreed to restrictions on Romanian and Bulgarian citizens rights to move abroad and they did the same for Croatians  , all be it on a temporary basis 

Four EU governments called for a change to Freedom of movement in 2013 (Austria , Netherlands , Germany and UK) .. the argument was exceptional movement and the strain put on those areas  , indeed some borders are still currently "shut" in effect

we aren't members of Schengen and when it evolved into the treaty of Amsterdam we obtained an opt -out .. which presumably had to have been agreed by all the other members at that time  ... and as we saw last year countries were given the right to shut those borders , in effect denying freedom of movement 

So it's not a huge leap in the dark to suggest that Freedom of Movement is a line in the sand that can't be moved , whatever Merkel says publically ?

 

 

 

 

If they offer that to the UK as a reward for voting to leave it will give a huge boost the hopes of LePen, Wilders and every other far right crack pot across Europe. 

There is no way they would shoot themselves in the foot like that. 

[StefanAVFC]

I'm getting strips torn out of me by my leave voting family on Facebook. Claims that I called all leave voters xenophobic for sharing an album of 115 examples of incidents since Thursday. 

Such a shame that I don't even want to be associated with my own family.

My immediate family all voted remain so I'm holding onto that crumb of comfort.

The funniest thing is, one of cousins said the day before the vote that she didn't know which way to vote. So I wrote this just for her.

Quote

Even with a points system, Australia have twice as much immigration as we do (relative to our respective populations). With regards to the NHS/schools, just look at the key players for leave. Big advocates of privatising the NHS. Gove made an enemy of pretty much the entire education sector. You go into schools Claire. You must have seen first hand the impact Gove had on the morale of teachers.

With that, do you honestly think these people have our best interests at heart? That '350 million a week' (nonsense figure, in reality it's much less) will be put straight into the NHS/education budgets? It simply won't happen. People are being manipulated. Even as soon as 4 months ago, Boris said 'I'm never been an outer' 

Skip forward 4 months, and suddenly he is. This is a man not acting in the interests of the UK. He is acting in the interests of Boris. He spotted a political opportunity and he's grabbing it with both hands. And he's very clever with it. He says things that people want to hear. Like 'Independence day', 'make us great again' and 'sovereignty' when actually they're just buzzwords.

I live in a poorer (than us) EU nation and I see every day the impact that EU funding has. Poland continues to grow year upon year because of growth in the economy and more importantly, infrastructure. They're continue to grow and continue to put more money into the EU giving other countries the opportunity to grow. That's the whole point of the EU and it's working.

If Poland doesn't interest you, look at Wales, Liverpool in the 70's. Both benefit(ted) greatly from EU money. For me, all of that is worth the 3 quid (average) and much, much less for most people (when factoring in varying levels of income tax) a week the EU actually costs us.

I've deliberately kept quiet about this referendum because it's been total poison from both sides. The nation is split, but you asked for reasons and here it is. I can only make my case and hope you make the right choice 

Now she's attacking me and giving reasons for vote, 6 days later? It's tragic.

Edited June 28, 2016 by StefanAVFC

[maqroll]

48 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

views tailored to suit arguments

Opinions?

 

[tonyh29]

27 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

If they offer that to the UK as a reward for voting to leave it will give a huge boost the hopes of LePen, Wilders and every other far right crack pot across Europe. 

There is no way they would shoot themselves in the foot like that. 

Austria nearly elected a right wing leader  , Switzerland want the freedom of movement dropped ( and have withdrawn their request for formal membership of the EU , at least I think I read that somewhere ).

The French are likely to come to the same conclusion as the U.K by all accounts , offer that sort of deal across the board and you can almost head them off at the pass and whilst it won't kill off the Farage and Le Pens of the world it will stop a lot of potential voters drifting to them

 

Edited June 28, 2016 by tonyh29

[tonyh29]

 

I'm getting strips torn out of me by my leave voting family on Facebook. Claims that I called all leave voters xenophobic for sharing an album of 115 examples of incidents since Thursday. 

Such a shame that I don't even want to be associated with my own family.

My immediate family all voted remain so I'm holding onto that crumb of comfort.

The funniest thing is, one of cousins said the day before the vote that she didn't know which way to vote. So I wrote this just for her.

Now she's attacking me and giving reasons for vote, 6 days later? It's tragic.

There has been many a Facebook comment I could have waded into , many bridges would have been burnt as a result i'm sure 

it's why VT has had to suffer all my frustrations as I've just bitten my tongue and ignored anything on social media , I'm not falling out with anyone near and dear to me over politics .... You lot are all a bunch of lefty word removeds and don't matter 

as ive said before I don't even know how my parents or brother even vote in a GE or how they voted last week ....long may it continue 

[Stevo985]

25 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I'm getting strips torn out of me by my leave voting family on Facebook. Claims that I called all leave voters xenophobic for sharing an album of 115 examples of incidents since Thursday. 

Such a shame that I don't even want to be associated with my own family.

My immediate family all voted remain so I'm holding onto that crumb of comfort.

The funniest thing is, one of cousins said the day before the vote that she didn't know which way to vote. So I wrote this just for her.

Now she's attacking me and giving reasons for vote, 6 days later? It's tragic.

I've read your posts and the main guy attacking you is being a total **** cockwomble.

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

I've read your posts and the main guy attacking you is being a total **** cockwomble.

Yep. I repeatedly ask where I called all leave voters racist or xenophobic and nobody provides me with an answer. Instead carries on attacking. It's a shame that my family is so divided but it isn't a surprise. My mum's side is very traditional working class Birmingham. My mum and dad moved to the countryside just before I was born so I grew up in a totally different environment, both culturally and politically.

[tonyh29]

7 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Opinions?

 

I think when someone frequently says along the lines that bankers are to blame for the recession and economic mess   and then use them as proof of how their argument is correct as the banks are showing it , then it's tailoring rather than opinions ...

Thats just my tailoring though