MikeMcKenna Posted April 18, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2016 10 hours ago, Richard said: I think it's a shit say nothing statement but one they had to get out to be seen to be saying something Still could not actually say SORRY could they? That ****** Lerner couldnt be bothered to condescend to even write to the fans and left his puppet Hollis to do the grovelling. I will believe **** all coming out of AVFC till Lerner has gone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Spot on, but from what the papers are saying its that imbecile lerner holding things up as he hasnt set what our budget will be next season so we cant really interview managers if we dont know what the budget will be. My worry exactly. Every day that passes is an opportunity missed. Leave it much longer and they start being nails in the coffin for next season. If the club has to stop what it is doing to wait for a man that cares as little as he does and has less ability we are screwed. We are already way behind being optimal and not far off shooting ourselves in the foot again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 11 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Really? We have just been relegated after an appalling season. Every appointment that Lerner has made in the past has been claimed to be positive and turned about to be the reverse. It is hardly surprising that many still remain skeptical about whether Hollis and others can fix the club. The constant reference to the shit owners we could have is frankly boring. Despite his millions, under Lerner in the last 6 years we have suffered the worst times and football that most Villa fans have ever known. It has been unrelenting crap. The statement should have said SORRY! Expecting fans to believe that the next steps will be positive while Lerner still owns the club is beyond a joke. The man is ******* incompetent in the extreme, and Hollis has yet to win any plaudits beyond firing the latest scapegoats under Lerner's ownership. Mike everything you have said is spot on. Personally though I couldn't give a toss if someone at the club comes out and says sorry. It makes f all difference. The past can’t be changed and bleating on about it, wallowing in self pity, to me is absolutely futile. The only thing that the past can serve as is a means to learn lessons from. That is it. The club has to push forward now. It has to start the fight back now. That is what the whole club should be focused on and obviously that includes us the supporters. In fact we are a huge part of that. I don’t want to mention the protest group too much in other threads but that is what we will be 100% focused on in making requests to be actioned to influence a more positive future. I don’t know if that can be achieved with Lerner at the helm but I am convinced that Lerner will remain at the helm for some time yet. We therefore have to push for positive action from him as simply shouting for him to leave and nothing else is giving him a free pass on his responsibilities whilst he remains. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted April 18, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Mike everything you have said is spot on. Personally though I couldn't give a toss if someone at the club comes out and says sorry. It makes f all difference. The past can’t be changed and bleating on about it, wallowing in self pity, to me is absolutely futile. The only thing that the past can serve as is a means to learn lessons from. That is it. The club has to push forward now. It has to start the fight back now. That is what the whole club should be focused on and obviously that includes us the supporters. In fact we are a huge part of that. I don’t want to mention the protest group too much in other threads but that is what we will be 100% focused on in making requests to be actioned to influence a more positive future. I don’t know if that can be achieved with Lerner at the helm but I am convinced that Lerner will remain at the helm for some time yet. We therefore have to push for positive action from him as simply shouting for him to leave and nothing else is giving him a free pass on his responsibilities whilst he remains. Mark, I think you are going to be disappointed yet again by Lerner. I believe that Hollis et al will not get further financial support from Lerner beyond preventing the club going under. Imo the board will have to finance any new player appointments by selling some of the current squad. Basically with Lerner 'at the helm' we are ******! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 6 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Mark, I think you are going to be disappointed yet again by Lerner. I believe that Hollis et al will not get further financial support from Lerner beyond preventing the club going under. Imo the board will have to finance any new player appointments by selling some of the current squad. Basically with Lerner 'at the helm' we are ******! I am not sure, if Lerner wants to sell and get money he has to spend money to get us back. He will never sell us as a mid table or league one club. So even i think Lerner wont be that thick not to give a decent budget to the new man in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 18, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2016 I agree with Dem. Lerner won't sell us in the Championship. He'll want us back in the Prem before he sells. And even he knows he won't do that without providing at least a bit of money. And in the championship, it doesn't take shitloads of money to be big spenders. IIRC only Derby and Boro spent more than £10m last summer in that league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I agree Mike. The people running the show may have changed but the overall strategy remains. ive seen lerners time here as one where he has failed to grasp the realities of premier league , in fact English, football. when he arrived I believe his strategy was to pump prime the club. Spend an amount and that would be it in terms of large investment, maybe have to spend a bit each season but to keep it ticking over. Once you have spent the first 100m or so on transfers that kidney would just remain. Either you sold players for more than you bought them for or they stayed with you while the team hit better so earned more money. Three years into this he basically said "well I've spent X why aren't we earning more, why aren't we in champions league". When realised that we spent top six money and in order to progress at that time (in the timescales he wanted and inttimescales that strategy needed in order to be sustainable) he needed to spend more he thought nope can't do that I've employed the wrong people I need someone to get more out of the players I have. houllier - shit I've employed the wrong person I need someone to get the most out of limited resources, it is the players it's the management mcleish - shit I've employed the wrong person I need someone to be able to scout developable talent, it isn't the players it's the management lambert - shit I've employed the wrong person I need someone to motivate what we've got especially those players I've given large contracts to as no one will buy them, it isn't the players it's the management. Sherwood - shit I've employed the wrong person he can't get them organised and he's not on message with Tom or paddy or almstadt, I need someone into the project and able to spot talent on the continent with a record of that it isn't the players it's the management garde - shit why didn't that work the? He's French the players are French I'm not giving him any money shit this hasn't worked I need someone to work int He championship on a budget , it isn't the players it's the management in reality it is a combination of management and players working to a strategy. So randy it isn't the players, it isn't the management . It's the **** strategy. Ergo it's you . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I can't understand the negativity. Perhaps i'm being naive? Hollis' actions have already spoken louder than his words with Garde, Fox and Almstadt gone. He's also hired "football people" onto the board. I for one appreciated the open letter and I'm willing to give him the chance to further improve matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 18, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, pas5898 said: I can't understand the negativity. Perhaps i'm being naive? Hollis' actions have already spoken louder than his words with Garde, Fox and Almstadt gone. He's also hired "football people" onto the board. I for one appreciated the open letter and I'm willing to give him the chance to further improve matters. A lot of people can't accept anything behind the scenes at villa being anything other than terrible. They have a point, given our recent track record. But it means someone like Hollis starts from a losing position and has to do a hell of a lot to prove himself. I've got no problem with the statement, but what happens over the next couple of months matters a lot more. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Straggler said: He could have said something like this. Having made the decision to part ways with Remi we approached David Moyes. David was very excited about the opportunity to revive our fortunes and impressed with the preparations we had in place. As such I would like to announce that Moyes will be our manager next season and will be in place immediately in a consultancy role to oversee the reconstruction of he club. Don't just talk about plans, demonstrate with some action. Actually although this is an important managerial appointment - its easier than it has been for some time:- 2 good candidates are unemployed, Moyes/Pearson Bruce and Mccarthy (for example) haven't distanced themselves from the position We are an absolute giant club in the championship - gets us a top 2 placing, I still reckon we will get 30K+ attendances who else can do that ? There are no guarantees of how manager will perform - but the club should be able to get someone who looks reasonable on day 1 - there can be no excuses IMO for not landing one of the proven championship managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 42 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Mark, I think you are going to be disappointed yet again by Lerner. I believe that Hollis et al will not get further financial support from Lerner beyond preventing the club going under. Imo the board will have to finance any new player appointments by selling some of the current squad. Basically with Lerner 'at the helm' we are ******! Financial support hasn’t been the major issue in the past. It has been putting that money into the wrong hands that has been the major issue and has ultimately left us with a squad of players that can’t compete in the top flight despite us actually having a wage bill that would comfortably sit with in the top dozen in the league. As others have said Lerner won’t get anything like the return he needs by selling us as a Championship club that is one of the reasons I believe a sale won’t come any time soon. He will therefore have to ensure that the club gets promoted if he is to achieve a decent return. I am not sure what to say to you Mike really. I mean we can look at the past and say nothing will change with Lerner at the helm and then simply scream and shout for him to go and nothing else and give up until he leaves. Or we can push the club to take positive action, push for a commitment to invest, push to ensure the money spent is being overseen by people that know what they are doing and push to ensure that the club maximises commercial income. Getting this back solely to Hollis. It is too early for me to judge how much influence he will have and whether or not he will have a positive impact. He has gotten rid of a few people, that is easy, and he has bought in Bernstein and Little which I think at face value is a positive. The big tests are now to come and maybe another few weeks will be a better time to pass judgement. I certainly can’t see there is anything to be gained by saying well things have been crap over the last few years so they have to continue to be crap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) 22 minutes ago, hippo said: Actually although this is an important managerial appointment - its easier than it has been for some time:- 2 good candidates are unemployed, Moyes/Pearson Bruce and Mccarthy (for example) haven't distanced themselves from the position We are an absolute giant club in the championship - gets us a top 2 placing, I still reckon we will get 30K+ attendances who else can do that ? There are no guarantees of how manager will perform - but the club should be able to get someone who looks reasonable on day 1 - there can be no excuses IMO for not landing one of the proven championship managers. A lot of truth there mate. I think the derby against blose will be more than that. I think if Newcastle come down that will be a big crowd, as will games against Leeds, forest and Wolves. Heck even Derby! We are giants in that league I think there will be interest Edited April 18, 2016 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: A lot of truth there mate. I think the derby against blose will be more than that. I think if Newcastle come down that will be a big crowd, as will games against Leeds, forest and Wolves. Heck even Derby! We are giants in that league I think there will be interest Yep in relative terms there are no excuses for a mickey mouse manager. I think most managers in the championship would like to manage us given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 You also have to remember that as giants in the Championship one of the biggest teams to ever grace that league with our presence we'll be attracting the best players in the league in theory. There are going to be a lot of players seeing this club as a vessel to get into the Premier League, so hopefully we get a decent budget as I think whoever the next manager is his phone is going to be ringing 24/7 from agents of players that think they are too good for their current club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, Daweii said: You also have to remember that as giants in the Championship one of the biggest teams to ever grace that league with our presence we'll be attracting the best players in the league in theory. There are going to be a lot of players seeing this club as a vessel to get into the Premier League, so hopefully we get a decent budget as I think whoever the next manager is his phone is going to be ringing 24/7 from agents of players that think they are too good for their current club. and we already have Gestede ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted April 18, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2016 39 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Financial support hasn’t been the major issue in the past. It has been putting that money into the wrong hands that has been the major issue and has ultimately left us with a squad of players that can’t compete in the top flight despite us actually having a wage bill that would comfortably sit with in the top dozen in the league. As others have said Lerner won’t get anything like the return he needs by selling us as a Championship club that is one of the reasons I believe a sale won’t come any time soon. He will therefore have to ensure that the club gets promoted if he is to achieve a decent return. I am not sure what to say to you Mike really. I mean we can look at the past and say nothing will change with Lerner at the helm and then simply scream and shout for him to go and nothing else and give up until he leaves. Or we can push the club to take positive action, push for a commitment to invest, push to ensure the money spent is being overseen by people that know what they are doing and push to ensure that the club maximises commercial income. Getting this back solely to Hollis. It is too early for me to judge how much influence he will have and whether or not he will have a positive impact. He has gotten rid of a few people, that is easy, and he has bought in Bernstein and Little which I think at face value is a positive. The big tests are now to come and maybe another few weeks will be a better time to pass judgement. I certainly can’t see there is anything to be gained by saying well things have been crap over the last few years so they have to continue to be crap. Mark, I am completely agnostic. Until I see differently I will not trust Lerner to ever get anything right. Some might have been placated by Hollis's actions and words but I am not. Only the appointment of a manager such as Moyes with a commitment to invest in quality players will persuade me that the club is trying to correct past mistakes. However I expect them to appoint the likes of Pearson or similar with vague or little promise of further investment. Season ticket renewals will be down the pan for next season and if the club do not get this appointment right and promise investment, even more fans will vote with their feet. As I have said and you know, I applaud and support what AVPG are doing but I will continue to be implacably opposed to Lerner's continued ownership. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 18, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2016 We really should change the club motto, shouldn't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 19 minutes ago, mjmooney said: We really should change the club motto, shouldn't we? Ill help, give me £80K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 18, 2016 22 minutes ago, mjmooney said: We really should change the club motto, shouldn't we? Maybe we could just get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted April 18, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, blandy said: Maybe we could just get rid of it. We did that six years ago when we became "UNPREPARED" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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