Sam3773 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Lazy maybe, but the job of a Manager is to sort that out isnt it ? Poor ? No I dont buy it, you don't pass sideways and backwards because of a lack of ability, and most of these players are of a similar ability to players anywhere from Championship up to bottom half Premiership, and players in many of those Clubs have no problem doing what the Manager wants. Also I find it hard to blame 15-20 odd players over 2 Managers. You say we have a squad of Championship/Low-level Premier League players.. That's why we're in this mess. I wish they were that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post El Zen Posted January 11, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2016 I hate to get involved in internet bickering but recent developments in this thread, and that Remi Garde is seemingly already under pressure from some sections of fans, really p*sses me off. He's taken over the biggest fustercluck of a football club in recent memory, an unbalanced squad bereft of confidence and mental fortitude. I don't give a flying f*** he isn't delivering results yet - the season is over - I only care about what happens off the pitch to rebuild the football club. Another quick fix would only have postponed the issue, we need a fundamental change in terms of attitude and degree of progessinalism. We have a manager with integrity, determination and an excellent football education. He knows from Lyon how to manage a club through a rebuild. At least give him a full preseason, enough time for him to build something with the slightest resemblence of something he can call his own, before you conclude he's not the right man for the job. I understand angry. I'm angry as hell. With Lerner. Be angry with Lerner by all means, but start calling for Remi's head at this stage and you're only contributing to the sorry state we're in. Fixing this club will take time, and it requires continuity. Footbll fans, some Villa fans in particular, really are their own worst enemies sometimes. 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, Daweii said: I personally believe he is a good manager given the players. He had somewhat of a rebuild job at Lyon and had a 50% win rate with them and his job there at the start was likely not as hard as this but still a massive challenge. He's working with some of the worst players on the planet and no one in football could get much out of this team. So win, lose or draw I'll support him because I do believe there is a good manager in there, we just aren't seeing it because he has a squad full of players not listening or trying. Like a lot of Posts recently I dont understand your thoughts....I understand the desparate frustration though.... On the one hand you say these are the worst players on the planet, yet on the other you say they are "not listening or trying". Well if they are (1) can you blame them as you do in (2), and vice versa ? Secondly, if what he needs is better players, what does that say about him ? Are you really really certain that these players are so awful that it is impossible to do better ? I dont buy that. Thirdly, he is NOT going to have BETTER players next year !!! By definition we will almost certainly have WORSE players next year....so how does keeping him work ? Nah. For me, he has to show, and soon, that he CAN get these players playing to the maximum of their ability, consistently, and then he can be given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcowans21 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Michelsen said: I hate to get involved in internet bickering but recent developments in this thread, and that Remi Garde is seemingly already under pressure from some sections of fans, really p*sses me off. He's taken over the biggest fustercluck of a football club in recent memory, an unbalanced squad bereft of confidence and mental fortitude. I don't give a flying f*** he isn't delivering results yet - the season is over - I only care about what happens off the pitch to rebuild the football club. Another quick fix would only have postponed the issue, we need a fundamental change in terms of attitude and degree of progessinalism. We have a manager with integrity, determination and an excellent football education. He knows from Lyon how to manage a club through a rebuild. At least give him a full preseason, enough time for him to build something with the slightest resemblence of something he can call his own, before you conclude he's not the right man for the job. I understand angry. I'm angry as hell. With Lerner. Be angry with Lerner by all means, but start calling for Remi's head at this stage and you're only contributing to the sorry state we're in. Fixing this club will take time, and it requires continuity. Footbll fans, some Villa fans in particular, really are their own worst enemies sometimes. Great post 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Michelsen said: I hate to get involved in internet bickering but recent developments in this thread, and that Remi Garde is seemingly already under pressure from some sections of fans, really p*sses me off. He's taken over the biggest fustercluck of a football club in recent memory, an unbalanced squad bereft of confidence and mental fortitude. I don't give a flying f*** he isn't delivering results yet - the season is over - I only care about what happens off the pitch to rebuild the football club. Another quick fix would only have postponed the issue, we need a fundamental change in terms of attitude and degree of progessinalism. We have a manager with integrity, determination and an excellent football education. He knows from Lyon how to manage a club through a rebuild. At least give him a full preseason, enough time for him to build something with the slightest resemblence of something he can call his own, before you conclude he's not the right man for the job. I understand angry. I'm angry as hell. With Lerner. Be angry with Lerner by all means, but start calling for Remi's head at this stage and you're only contributing to the sorry state we're in. Fixing this club will take time, and it requires continuity. Footbll fans, some Villa fans in particular, really are their own worst enemies sometimes. I have seen very little bickering and certainly over recent pages, which is presumably what you have looked at, very little evidence of people saying he should be sacked ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 7 minutes ago, terrytini said: I have seen very little bickering and certainly over recent pages, which is presumably what you have looked at, very little evidence of people saying he should be sacked ? Plenty of people concluding he's not the right man for the job, plenty of people calling him a terrible manager and I'm sure I've seen some people saying he should be sacked already. The part about bickering was really only me being uncomfortable with the tone in which my post was written in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Michelsen said: Plenty of people concluding he's not the right man for the job Probably because he has shown nothing at all to suggest that he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Just now, KHV said: Probably because he has shown nothing at all to suggest that he is And the point of my initial post was to express my frustration that some people have already concluded that he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Just now, KHV said: Probably because he has shown nothing at all to suggest that he is After 10 games! Imagine if we sacked Garde and appointed Moyes, only for Moyes to replicate Garde's first 10 games. Should we sack him too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcowans21 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, KHV said: Probably because he has shown nothing at all to suggest that he is You repeatedly say this. Sherwood had a few flukey wins last season while we had Benteke and Delph, players that have by far much more quality than any player we have now. All managers previously have had a transfer window/windows to sign their own players (wether chosen by them or the commitee, they said they were happy with them). Garde now has a chance to improve the squad with his own signings, most probably loans, so im intirgued to see what signings he can get and see if he can improve results. So i will judge him in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Thing is, looking back over the last couple of seasons I don't think we're playing significantly worse. We don't look like scoring? There were massive goal droughts under Lambert. Our defence looks shoddy? Do we not remember the four-goal thumpings we took in the 2013/14 season? Three managers have had us in and about the relegation zone with largely this bunch of players, and it was only Benteke's goals that kept us up. The only logical conclusion is that the problem on the pitch is the players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 45 minutes ago, terrytini said: For those who would firmly give him to the end of the season......no matter what ? If so, why ? Lets say he hasnt got a Win by March ? I understand what you are saying - I'm in the "give him until the end of the season" but in that thinking I'm also expecting a little more as he firmly gets his teeth into the task. I think we have seen very minor improvement but things do seem to be going backwards again atm. "End of the season" is my default mindset, but there are a lot of factors which could affect that one way or another, especially the Janaury window. If we have no win in the next ten then his position will look untenable unless there were massive mitigating factors 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Certainly no better than sherwood as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 hour ago, VillaCas said: I'm firmly in the "give Garde until the end of the season" camp. So am I, but through a forced proposition. In so much that there is undoubtedly no plan B, and we just have to pray this one comes good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2016 1 hour ago, terrytini said: For those who would firmly give him to the end of the season......no matter what ? If so, why ? Lets say he hasnt got a Win by March ? Because sacking him would be pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I dont buy the logic of saying lets see what he does with his own players ? They will still be footballers you know, they will still be of a similar standard, with a similar perch on the pay scale. They wont be his kids or anything. So we would be saying, OK, you didnt have any joy with that Squad, try another ? Not for me. He has to prove himself by getting the very best out whats here, which I dont yet think he has, but he may. If he doesnt win any games, for example, we shouldnt keep him ! Thats hardly extreme ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, terrytini said: He has to prove himself by getting the very best out whats here, which I dont yet think he has, but he may. If he doesnt win any games, for example, we shouldnt keep him ! Thats hardly extreme ! I agree, and this is my biggest concern. There seems to be a common belief that we have seen already the absolute best you can get out of this current set of players, I don't buy that but we'll find out by the end of the season if we get improvements. The latter part isn't unreasonable either, 0 wins between now and the end of the season - I don't think anyone would be disagreeing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 3 hours ago, BOF said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Because sacking him would be pointless. Sorry, thats not an argument at all. Nobody can know whether it would have a point or not. Its just as sane/daft to keep a Manager who cant win games as it is to get rid of them. He shouldnt get extra time in the job just because the last guy didnt get much time. He should get, and keep it, on merit alone, and if the defence for him is that he needs a different group of players (a defence which I doubt he would welcome, nor need) then its hard to argue his merits. Surely he should be judged like any other Manager. I recall in Lamberts first season defending him left right and centre saying we needed to get a guy and stick with him, give him time etc. All that was, and is, true, but you still have to be pretty sure its the right guy. Back then Lamberts results were, importantly, a (small) improvement on Mcleish. I couldn't have defended him had he the record we now have. To repeat my view, I dont want him sacked but he has to show what he CAN get out of players, not that he CANT. Id say half a dozen or so games on top of what hes had already is a fair time to show that at least. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 34 minutes ago, Villanun said: Thing is, looking back over the last couple of seasons I don't think we're playing significantly worse. We don't look like scoring? There were massive goal droughts under Lambert. Our defence looks shoddy? Do we not remember the four-goal thumpings we took in the 2013/14 season? Three managers have had us in and about the relegation zone with largely this bunch of players, and it was only Benteke's goals that kept us up. The only logical conclusion is that the problem on the pitch is the players. Nope. Because its not the same players. If anything the evidence you've used points to the Managers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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