Popular Post peterms Posted April 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2019 Javid asks police to arrest those who are "significantly disrupting the lives of others". A police swoop on the next Cabinet meeeting woukd be a good start. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Seat68 said: Have you seen their demands? yep. Edited April 19, 2019 by VILLAMARV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Seat68 said: Have you seen their demands? They are bonkers. Care in the community bonkers. Current society being Broadmoor level psychopath with insatiable avarice bonkers. How we let it get here is somewhere in the middle bonkers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Seat68 said: Have you seen their demands? They are bonkers. Are they as bonkers as thinking we can meet climate change targets by changing our lightbulbs and recycling crisp packets? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Fair enough so change your boiler, car and stop taking foreign holidays. I know its more nuanced than that but how the **** else do we get to zero carbon emissions in 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted April 19, 2019 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Seat68 said: Fair enough so change your boiler, car and stop taking foreign holidays. I know its more nuanced than that but how the **** else do we get to zero carbon emissions in 6 years. Not as individuals. Ultimately we solve climate change by changing capitalism - by dealing with the idea that permanent, eternal growth is the only model for our society, by making sure that the things on the shelves in our shops haven't come 3,000 miles to get there, by building cities with great public transport and transit links, and by heavily taxing fossil fuels and preventing any new types of fossil fuel industry - we have the capacity to completely power our societies using renewable methods - but we don't live in a society, we live in an economy - and that economy isn't ready to give up profit just to keep us alive. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 These people want it in 6 years. I will still be breaking in a new pair of shoes I just bought in 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 9 hours ago, Seat68 said: Fair enough so change your boiler, car and stop taking foreign holidays. I know its more nuanced than that but how the **** else do we get to zero carbon emissions in 6 years. It's not only 'more nuanced than that' but none of those things will help in any meaningful way. The notion that saving the environment is about personal choices has been one of the dumbest and most corrosive myths imaginable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Look I just read an article of how we could possibly get to zero carbon in 6 years. I try to keep out of the thread that discusses it but I am sure there are some great ways to do it in 6 years in that thread. Unfortunately I seem to have derailed this tory thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 10 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: It's not only 'more nuanced than that' but none of those things will help in any meaningful way. The notion that saving the environment is about personal choices has been one of the dumbest and most corrosive myths imaginable. I saw a twitter the other day and in it some angry bean said something along the lines of "I'm going to put all my plastic in the black bin bag this week just to show 'em". So it works a treat. Be angry at the messengers. Not the offenders. Truth is, it's not just the environment either is it? Bankers at the top mess up? you the individual is to pay the bill. People move billions off shore tax free? Taxes need to rise and services need to shut. Politicians act against the public interest all the time. In many ways it's no more nuanced than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: I saw a twitter the other day and in it some angry bean said something along the lines of "I'm going to put all my plastic in the black bin bag this week just to show 'em". So it works a treat. Be angry at the messengers. Not the offenders. Truth is, it's not just the environment either is it? Bankers at the top mess up? you the individual is to pay the bill. People move billions off shore tax free? Taxes need to rise and services need to shut. Politicians act against the public interest all the time. In many ways it's no more nuanced than that. This is really the only option since letting enormous banks fail can lead to depressions, so the harm caused by that is far great than socialising losses (this is Hyman Minsky 101). Governments enlarging deficits in order to stabilise 'unstable' economies is an absolutely vital function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: This is really the only option since letting enormous banks fail can lead to depressions, so the harm caused by that is far great than socialising losses (this is Hyman Minsky 101). Governments enlarging deficits in order to stabilise 'unstable' economies is an absolutely vital function. The thing I object to in all of that is the warnings that were not heeded. It was trotted out many times that "no one could have predicted" the recent crash. I know people who work in the City and they said it to me directly many times over. You even had the PM on TV claiming to have "abolished boom-bust" economics. They have no reply though when you point them in the direction of countless papers written by economists and political analysts warning of the sub-prime problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 18/04/2019 at 09:10, Davkaus said: There's so, so much wrong with it. The unnecessary storage of inherently sensitive information Conditioning the population in to unthinkingly providing their identification documents to an industry with no lack of unscrupulous operators. This is an identity theft scandal waiting to happen. On 18/04/2019 at 09:10, Davkaus said: what could possibly go wrong? as if by magic.... Quote Government in email privacy blunder A government department responsible for data protection laws has shared the contact details of hundreds of journalists. The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport emailed more than 300 recipients in a way that allowed their addresses to be seen by other people. The email - seen by the BBC - contained a press release about age-checks for adult websites. Digital Minister Margot James said the incident was "embarrassing". She added: "It was an error and we're evaluating at the moment whether that was a breach of data protection law." In the email sent on Wednesday, the department said new rules would offer "robust data protection conditions", adding: "Government has listened carefully to privacy concerns." A DCMS Spokesperson said: "In sending a news release to journalists an administrative, human error meant email addresses could be seen by others. DCMS takes data privacy extremely seriously and we apologise to those affected." It is the second time this month a government department has made a mistake of this kind. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47962405 Hahaha oh no hang on it's not funny at all is it. Can't even do a press release, yet want to keep collecting everyone's data and get us to pay for the privilege. How about no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: This is really the only option since letting enormous banks fail can lead to depressions, so the harm caused by that is far great than socialising losses (this is Hyman Minsky 101). Governments enlarging deficits in order to stabilise 'unstable' economies is an absolutely vital function. Agree with your second sentence (and you could add other things like allowing more scope for private savings by having govt deficits, as opposed to our crazy attempt to avoid deficits for the government and therefore plunging real people into shocking levels of debt). But that doesn't entail bailing out banks and just letting them carry on as before. It would have been quite possible to avoid a collapse of the banking system without also taking the view that we can let the chaps get on with whatever they were doing before. I think even the Bank of England recognises that limited liability has created an arrogant disregard for the consequences of dreadful corporate behaviour, and that when bankers were personally liable for their actions (like the rest of us are, out there in the real world), their decisions were much more cautious and responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 21, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 20/04/2019 at 00:16, HanoiVillan said: It's not only 'more nuanced than that' but none of those things will help in any meaningful way. The notion that saving the environment is about personal choices has been one of the dumbest and most corrosive myths imaginable. The only people who make choices are persons. Obviously what you’re getting at is that joe public’s choices won’t help in any meaningful way, but they will. Not because carrier bags, or avocados, but because Joe big business and joe politician care about gettting share options, or elected or whatever. And who makes that happen, or not? Persons, making choices. It’s about nothing but personal choices, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 7 hours ago, blandy said: The only people who make choices are persons. Obviously what you’re getting at is that joe public’s choices won’t help in any meaningful way, but they will. Not because carrier bags, or avocados, but because Joe big business and joe politician care about gettting share options, or elected or whatever. And who makes that happen, or not? Persons, making choices. It’s about nothing but personal choices, IMO. If you stop eating meat, people will still want meat. The only difference is that you will have made, at the margin, some difference to the price of meat, consumption of which is price sensitive. Overall, global demand for meat is limited by price, not desire. The same is true for petrol. Your 'ethical consumption' makes no difference at all at the aggregate level of the economy. The people who make a difference are governments. If the Tories had decided to go ahead with the tidal power project in South Wales it would have made more difference than every possible green decision of everyone reading this forum and everyone we collectively know added together, for all of our lifetimes. Individual decisions don't matter at the level of global climate, with the exception of your decision of who to vote for. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Only problem with that for me is that the rules of the game become less relevant when the game is rigged. I agree with the sentiment that under the current economic paradigm people should "vote with their dollar" Sometimes though the rules need to change. We were going to get a new tidal generator over this way. State of the art they said. Show we're serious about renewable energy they said. We lead the world we do yadda yadda yadda. What's happening of course is we're actually getting a new Nuclear Power Station 20 miles from my front door. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said: What's happening of course is we're actually getting a new Nuclear Power Station 20 miles from my front door. With the mud they excavated, not tested because they're sure it can't possibly be toxic or contaminated in any way dumped off Penarth, because they couldn't get a license to dump it anywhere on the english side. Like the 'renewables' power station that turns out to be a general rubbish incinerator that does not even have an environment impact assessment, but is allowed to operate anyway, because they've built it now, 300 metres from housing. Like bemoaning the state of pollution around the M4 corridor, then getting rid of the tolls in the desire to increase traffic and commutes to and from Bristol by 10%. I'm about done with the lot of them, the whole system is crooked. Tories and Labour complicit in pretending to govern on our behalf. We're frogs in a pan. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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