snowychap Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) She somehow hasn't actually resigned yet, despite her continued presence laughing in the face of May's 'authority'. May is really historically weak. To what extent that reflects her personality, and to what extent the election results, is up for debate. But to be unable to sack even quite junior cabinet members even when they basically lie to you - Patel reportedly failed to mention that she had proposed sending UK aid money to the Israeli army in her meeting with the PM - is pretty shocking. Even John Major would have been able to do that. EDIT: 'she had proposed' there should say 'she had discussed the proposal' as we don't know who came up with the wheeze AFAIK. Edited November 8, 2017 by HanoiVillan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 From a Robert Peston facebook post: Quote The meeting which looks to have done for her was with Israel’s public security minister Gilad Erdan on September 7. What is most shocking about this meeting is that it had been declined on her behalf by her department officials. But unbeknownst to them, it was then fixed up by her constituency office. None of her officials attended it. The meeting was not minuted or recorded. The only other Briton present was the businessman and honorary presidential of Conservative Friends of Israel, Lord Polak. And it's also being reported that whilst on her 'holiday', she made a visit to a field hospital in Golan Heights. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, snowychap said: From a Robert Peston facebook post: And it's also being reported that whilst on her 'holiday', she made a visit to a field hospital in Golan Heights. Lo and behold, Lord Polak CBE emerges again. To be honest, this is who I'm interested in now. We know Priti Patel. What's this guy all about, monetising his place in the legislature and attending all of her meetings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 From the Jewish Chronicle: Quote Number 10 instructed Development Secretary Priti Patel not to include her meeting with the Israel foreign ministry official Yuval Rotem in New York on 18 September in her list of undisclosed meetings with Israelis which was published on Monday, the JC has learned. Ms Patel listed 12 meetings in the statement, and the emergence of two more last night is thought to have made her sacking imminent. But the JC understands, from two different sources, that Ms Patel did disclose the meeting with Mr Rotem but was told by Number 10 not to include it as it would embarrass the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. In addition, the JC can reveal that although Ms Patel’s meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was not authorised in advance, the British government was made aware of it within hours. On 24 August - the same day as Ms Patel spoke to Mr Netanyahu - Middle East minister Alistair Burt and David Quarrey, the British Ambassador to Israel, met Michael Oren, Deputy Minister at the Israeli Prime Minister’s Office. According to the notes of the meeting, Mr Oren referred to Ms Patel having had a successful meeting with Mr Netanyahu earlier. It is understood that this information was then conveyed to Number 10. In addition, Prime Minister Theresa May spoke to Ms Patel in advance of the UN General Assembly and they discussed the Development Secretary’s meeting with Mr Netanyahu, as well as the details of Ms Patel’s plan for UK aid to be shared with the Israelis. Mrs May agreed that the idea was sensible but needed sign off from the FCO. ............................................. Analysis: Stephen Pollard Last night I wrote on the JC site that something didn’t add up about Number Ten’s claim that it had no idea about Priti Patel’s meetings with senior Israelis. As I put it: “Well before last week's James Landale scoop about Ms Patel's meetings with Israeli politicians, I was told very matter of factly that there would soon be an announcement of cooperation between the UK and Israel over aid in Africa - that we would divert some of our aid money to the Israelis to fund some of their aid work there. I was told that it had been signed off between DfID and Number Ten, but that the FCO had kicked off because it felt its toes were being trodden on.” After that story went up, I was contacted by two senior and reliable sources. Both gave exactly the same story: that although Patel had clearly messed up and had to go, the real story was about Number 10. Far from being unaware, Number 10 knew in full about her meeting with Mr Netanyahu, because Ms Patel had discussed it with the Prime Minister in September, prior to the UN General Assembly.,I then discovered this morning that Number 10 had been told by Ms Patel about her meeting with Israeli foreign office official Yuval Rotem in New York and had specifically asked her not to include it.,It is a truism that with most scandals, the real falloutcomes from the cover up. My revelations today mean that there are some serious questions for Number 10 to answer about who knew what, when – including the PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 8, 2017 Any defence of 'mistakenly forgot to tell the right people' (which was nonsense anyway, the sheer amount of meetings and the friendly Lord Polak being around makes a mockery of that as it's obvious the holiday thing is bullshit, lying to hide the wrongdoing) kinda goes entirely out the window when it comes to light you literally sneaked around something having expressly been told not to do it, and carefully made sure there was no record of it. She can kiss leadership goodbye. And the Israelis will need a new puppet. Sadly the Commons is filled with them to step into the breach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Lo and behold, Lord Polak CBE emerges again. To be honest, this is who I'm interested in now. We know Priti Patel. What's this guy all about, monetising his place in the legislature and attending all of her meetings? Amongst other things (Hon Pres of Conservative Friends of Israel and a senior consultant to JLT Group), he is Chairman of TWC Associates’ Advisory Board. TWC describes itself as: Quote ... a small boutique consultancy specialising in the development of political strategy for a wide range of corporate and non-corporate clients. ... Our expertise lies in understanding the political landscape and how it works; and our role is to help guide our clients through what appears to many outsiders as a very complicated structure. We provide insight and knowledge on the difficulties of the parliamentary and legislative system using our expertise to overcome these complexities. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 8, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 8, 2017 Starting to feel very much like end of days for the PM and potentially this Government, it’s like death by a thousand cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Starting to feel very much like end of days for the PM and potentially this Government, it’s like death by a thousand cuts. And then what/who do we get? Can we import a government from somewhere? Is there anything with any semblance of competence out there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 8, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 minute ago, snowychap said: And then what/who do we get? Can we import a government from somewhere? Is there anything with any semblance of competence out there? I didn’t offer any suggestion that what would come after would be any better... No I’m afraid I’m increasingly of the opinion that they are the same shits in different colour ties. Regardless of which party they represent they rarely if ever represent the people of this country, just the interests of those lurking in the shadows. Oh and their own self interests obviously, that is the one thing they all seem to have in common aside from the slime trail they leave behind them. I’ve nothing but contempt for the vast majority of our MP’s. I’m in favour of scrapping the lot and putting Stephen Hawkin in charge. Screw democracy it doesn’t seem to be getting us very far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: I didn’t offer any suggestion that what would come after would be any better... I didn't mean to imply that you did so sorry if it came across like that. Rather like you, I just wonder where we go from here. Edit: Please, no mention of lakes. Edited November 8, 2017 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 8, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: I didn't mean to imply that you did so sorry if it came across like that. Rather like you, I just wonder where we go from here. No, not at all. Just my own wondering mind. Sadly, I think we know don’t we? Different faces, possibly different colour ties, different scandles and excuses same old inept, corrupt self serving public failing clearings in the woods. Meanwhile the rich will get richer, the poor poorer, the disabled shipped to death camps run by Capita on the Isle of White and only the honest, stupid and poor will pay their fair share of tax to fund much needed duck ponds for MP’s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) The mendacity and venality I can reason through to an extent - though (more than) unwelcome, they're somewhat expected. It's the staggeringly large dungheap of ineptitude that I can't get. Edited November 8, 2017 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Watching the implosion of a government. Will it still be in place by the end of the week, I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 8, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 8, 2017 The more this carries on, the less I think May is going anywhere. The sheer lack of anyone with substance and who is untainted by some sort of scandal behind her is staggering. No one wants to make a move because they know what’s coming. Brexit with be a complete and utter shambles (if it already isn’t), no-one will want to be tarred with that. its getting to the stage now where Andrea Leadsom and Anna Soubry will be fighting it out for leader eventually. I really think we're witnessing the death of the Tory Party as we know it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Live from Theresa's embalming ceremony... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 8, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, bickster said: The more this carries on, the less I think May is going anywhere. The sheer lack of anyone with substance and who is untainted by some sort of scandal behind her is staggering. No one wants to make a move because they know what’s coming. Brexit with be a complete and utter shambles (if it already isn’t), no-one will want to be tarred with that. its getting to the stage now where Andrea Leadsom and Anna Soubry will be fighting it out for leader eventually. I really think we're witnessing the death of the Tory Party as we know it Maybe, probably... I’m not sure... I thought we had seen the death of the Lib party after the coalition but like a cockroach and Micheal Gove they are still breathing, it was just Gregg and a few of his chums who paid the price. Not so long ago it seemed like Labour was fracturing to its core, that it could split and that the party as we had known it might be over. But they recovered, to an extent at least. The Tories are in crisis now and they’ve not bottomed out yet but they are no worse than they were before Blair destroyed them in 97. Like a turd that just won’t flush they will be back but I agree May might limp on a while yet for the reasons you say. I despair at our parties and system, it’s rotten to the core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 8, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 minute ago, TrentVilla said: Maybe, probably... I’m not sure... I thought we had seen the death of the Lib party after the coalition but like a cockroach and Micheal Gove they are still breathing, it was just Gregg and a few of his chums who paid the price. Not so long ago it seemed like Labour was fracturing to its core, that it could split and that the party as we had known it might be over. But they recovered, to an extent at least. The Tories are in crisis now and they’ve not bottomed out yet but they are no worse than they were before Blair destroyed them in 97. Like a turd that just won’t flush they will be back but I agree May might limp on a while yet for the reasons you say. I despair at our parties and system, it’s rotten to the core. I agree with that last sentence 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted November 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 44 minutes ago, peterms said: Watching the implosion of a government. Will it still be in place by the end of the week, I wonder? I think we might be seeing why British people are not allowed guns as a rule. (Small Island, lot's of people especially in the Capital) This government in particular would have been on some fire in Hyde Park by now if we did. I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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