darrenm Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: In terms of the Tories: what case would you make, if you wanted to argue that the last seven years haven't been disastrous? I mean, as an intellectual exercise, what will historians look back on when they look at these seven years? Electorally: won one election; twice failed to win a majority, including failing to win a majority after 13 years of opposition rule and spectacularly blowing an election campaign; won a referendum that kept the country together; the party leadership lost the Brexit referendum and are mostly following through a policy they don't believe in Economic: years of weak growth, Brexit referendum leaves us the sick man of Europe; consistently failed to meet own targets on deficit reduction; austerity; QE & low interest rates haven't kick-started the economy; a 'lost decade' below trendline growth; raised income tax threshold Socially: massive increase in homelessness; passed gay marriage; 'Big Society' never happened; NHS in a state, with many hospital trusts failing financially and to meet targets; successfully held Olympics; prisons in crisis Foreign: successful campaign against IS; disastrous intervention in Libya creates a failed state; moral shame of backing alliance against Yemen; Brexit damages relations with neighbours I'm genuinely interested in other's opinions here: is it too negative? What positives am I missing? What do you think historians will note the era for? They've done fairly well to reduce the deficit to where it is now, but it's at huge social cost and has crippled the economy which has nothing left to export due to 30 years of neoliberalism where we now rely on the vapourware services and financial industries for GDP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Talking of shareholder dividends over service, the f***tard Grayling tried to catch a train the other day. Quote The launch of a new £5.7 billion fleet of high-speed trains descended into farce as the first journey was overcrowded, hit by delays and faulty air conditioning - all while the Transport Secretary was on board. The new fleet was hailed by Chris Grayling before the maiden journey departed as "a fantastic service" but he swiftly found himself trapped on a train packed with frustrated commuters. The fleet launched with great fanfare but the first journey was largely overshadowed as water poured from the air conditioning and the train was delayed by approximately 40 minutes. Telegraph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, bobzy said: People who vote Tories have hate inside them toward a certain group in the country. Be it foreigners or benefit-claimants or the poor or students or whoever. It's the only reason you'd vote for that party rather than one actively wanting to help out everyone in the country. I'm also still yet to hear a reason anyone voted for them other than "anyone but Corbyn" - which is **** stupid. your last sentence is kinda amusing as the political threads here are predominantly occupied be posters who "aren't Corbyn supporters" but express a view of anyone but Tory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Ah yes, the awesome new trains. The Sec of State was also on it. He proudly boasted to local news that on the new train you could charge your phone. You could on the old one. He also boasted that, obviously apart from delays, it could in theory get from Swansea to London 'up to 15 minutes faster'. Woopie **** doo. £256 for a return ticket, but now you can get there in 2 hours 58 minutes instead of 3 hours and 13 minutes. £50 cheaper, now that would have been worthwhile. 15 minutes quicker? Big deal. All that money, all those years of disruption. Absolute shit show. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: your last sentence is kinda amusing as the political threads here are predominantly occupied be posters who "aren't Corbyn supporters" but express a view of anyone but Tory You've quoted a post where I've literally stated why I voted Labour - but then say something about "anyone but Tory"? Amusing, indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Ah yes, the awesome new trains. The Sec of State was also on it. He proudly boasted to local news that on the new train you could charge your phone. You could on the old one. He also boasted that, obviously apart from delays, it could in theory get from Swansea to London 'up to 15 minutes faster'. Woopie **** doo. £256 for a return ticket, but now you can get there in 2 hours 58 minutes instead of 3 hours and 13 minutes. £50 cheaper, now that would have been worthwhile. 15 minutes quicker? Big deal. All that money, all those years of disruption. Absolute shit show. I'd be asking some major questions of the government that made them the preferred bidder .... back in 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I'd be asking some major questions of the government that made them the preferred bidder .... back in 2009 Yes, agreed. Any government after that has only had 7 out of the 8 available years to sort anything out. It's just not enough time, quite frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 46 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: @HanoiVillan I think you have been kind to them mate certainly in terms of socially. They have decimated a lot of public services. You mention the NHS which is on its arse failing to meet targets. I dread to think what this winter will bring. Then you have things like adult social care which is in a dire state, the increase in working poor, children living in poverty, people reliant on food banks, disabled people killing themselves due to unfair cuts or removal of benefits after assessments by private firms given incentives to find people fit for work. Then you have this culture that started under Osborne of pointing the finger at those on benefits or heavily reliant on the state. Tarring them with the scroungers brush whilst the rest of us go to work. More recently they have done nothing to quell the uprising of lets blame Johnny Foreigner for all our woes. The last seven years have seen huge divides develop in this country due to the policies and rhetoric spouted by the Tory mob. Some fair points there, certainly I think adult social care and the so-far catastrophic rollout of Universal Credit have to go in. 42 minutes ago, bobzy said: Buying expensive land to build "new free schools" and investing heavily in grammar schools rather than investing in the current education structure to improve the level of teaching for all children. Failing to fill gaps in front line police forces leading to an increase in violent crime. It's a mess. Police cuts probably also deserves a place in the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I'd be asking some major questions of the government that made them the preferred bidder .... back in 2009 You should ask some John Major questions. Fortunately of late Labour seem to have woken up to the fact that privatisation of public services has been an abortion. The Tories just like the money though, don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 minute ago, bobzy said: You've quoted a post where I've literally stated why I voted Labour - but then say something about "anyone but Tory"? Amusing, indeed! you did no such thing ... you stated why people who vote Tory are blah blah blah , with no mention as to who or why you vote , you could vote Greens for all I know 41 minutes ago, bobzy said: People who vote Tories have hate inside them toward a certain group in the country. Be it foreigners or benefit-claimants or the poor or students or whoever. It's the only reason you'd vote for that party rather than one actively wanting to help out everyone in the country. I'm also still yet to hear a reason anyone voted for them other than "anyone but Corbyn" - which is **** stupid. I've also helped you out by putting in bold the bit I was commenting on regarding the anyone but Tories line ... you quite rightly say it's stupid , I was just observing that lots of posters in these threads openly clam ABT ... I'm sure they probably appreciate that you think them stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I'd be asking some major questions of the government that made them the preferred bidder .... back in 2009 Mine was a train and general politics rant. As opposed to just getting at little Alan and Chris Grayling. I'm no Labour fanboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: you did no such thing ... you stated why people who vote Tory are blah blah blah , with no mention as to who or why you vote , you could vote Greens for all I know I've also helped you out by putting in bold the bit I was commenting on regarding the anyone but Tories line ... you quite rightly say it's stupid , I was just observing that lots of posters in these threads openly clam ABT ... I'm sure they probably appreciate that you think them stupid Top bit is fair. Second bit - as a party, the Conservatives (and Labour) have form for doing certain things when in power. Therefore, to not want those things repeated makes some sort of sense. Still **** stupid, of course. What's Corbyn's legacy as PM? Edited October 18, 2017 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Just now, chrisp65 said: Mine was a train and general politics rant. As opposed to just getting at little Alan and Chris Grayling. I'm no Labour fanboy. I know , I guess I was sorta still in how things would be different without the Tory's mode , even though they all seem to be implementing the same stuff over the years seemed a bit harsh on Grayling really as Hammond finally signed the deal and Grayling only came into the job a year ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: What's Corbyn's legacy as PM? ask me in 6 months 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Just now, tonyh29 said: I know , I guess I was sorta still in how things would be different without the Tory's mode , even though they all seem to be implementing the same stuff over the years seemed a bit harsh on Grayling really as Hammond finally signed the deal and Grayling only came into the job a year ago I've done a tiny little bit of work in a Department that Chris Grayling was in. His staff appeared to think he was on a good day when he could both breathe and blink at the same time and not have to concentrate on one or the other. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 18, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 hour ago, markavfc40 said: Then you have this culture that started under Osborne of pointing the finger at those on benefits or heavily reliant on the state. Tarring them with the scroungers brush whilst the rest of us go to work. More recently they have done nothing to quell the uprising of lets blame Johnny Foreigner for all our woes. The last seven years have seen huge divides develop in this country due to the policies and rhetoric spouted by the Tory mob. I'll see your Osbourne and raise you a Tebbit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 TM saying they're going to scrap the 55p a min phone line charge for the Universal Credits helpline. About ******* time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 hours ago, dAVe80 said: TM saying they're going to scrap the 55p a min phone line charge for the Universal Credits helpline. About ******* time! I can't believe that existed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 4 hours ago, dAVe80 said: TM saying they're going to scrap the 55p a min phone line charge for the Universal Credits helpline. About ******* time! That's generous of her. It sorta sums the Conservatives up for me. They'll exploit the vulnerable until public opinion won't allow them to. Then they'll do it again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 18, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2017 So we've had a vote on pausing it - Theresa May's Conservative party decided to get right behind her by abstaining and absolutely every other breathing body in the house voted to put Universal Credit on hold - 229-0. I'm not quite sure what that means. I have a feeling it means there's a big majority of MP's that don't think Universal Credit works and one party that think not voting at all is the nearest they'll get to some support for their leader. She's done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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