The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[Genie]

It still cracks me up that she lasted only 45 days, and about 15 of them were national mourning parliament shut down  

[Chindie]

The only thing that prevents her being an unbeatable worst PM ever candidate is she was in place for such a short period that she didn't have time to rack up the really really really awful shit. But she was so bad in that period that even though she only had a month to do anything, she's still a front runner for worst.

[Davkaus]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

It still cracks me up that she lasted only 45 days, and about 15 of them were national mourning parliament shut down  

We've all got a few of those moments in our life where we did something hugely embarrassing that sometimes you just think about while you're awake at night, and cringe about years later, but can take comfort from the fact that nobody else really remembers or cares about it as much as it bothers you.

Not Liz Truss though. A record-breaking international laughing stock set for the history books. Ouch. 

[Mark Albrighton]

 

 

[bannedfromHandV]

To say I hate Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg and the rest of the nutjob lunatic brigade is honestly not strong enough a word.

I wanted to post something more eloquent and impactful but what’s the point. They’re total and utter scum and the sooner they get de-selected and confined to the fringes of society the better.

[desensitized43]

9 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

To say I hate Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg and the rest of the nutjob lunatic brigade is honestly not strong enough a word.

I wanted to post something more eloquent and impactful but what’s the point. They’re total and utter scum and the sooner they get de-selected and confined to the fringes of society the better.

The fact they keep getting elected and still even with all they’ve done to the country 20% of the electorate look at that and go “yep, they’re the ones for me” is really worrying.

[tinker]

It's tribalism, an example.... just cus villa is run badly doesn't mean you abandon them and support Arsenal.

This is, imo, is what has happened to large parts of the electorate, they are emotionally attached to Boris just like football fans are to their clubs.

Why is Boris arguing that he's not a liar but an idiot..... His fans can forgive that, a liar they may struggle to live with but an idiot can be forgiven......after all people are sick of listening to experts.

[SuperTed]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

To say I hate Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg and the rest of the nutjob lunatic brigade is honestly not strong enough a word.

I wanted to post something more eloquent and impactful but what’s the point. They’re total and utter scum and the sooner they get de-selected and confined to the fringes of society the better.

Onto the fringes of society, into the private sectors like banking, petroleum and insurance, where they can continue to reap havoc

[bannedfromHandV]

Just now, SuperTed said:

Onto the fringes of society, into the private sectors like banking, petroleum and insurance, where they can continue to reap havoc

They’re of little use to the private sector once they’ve been relegated to the nether regions of society, Boris is a serial liar, Rees-Mogg is a lazy dimwhit. No one’s going to pay them money if they can’t wield any serious political power. They’ll make enough on the after dinner speaking circuit sure, but if they can be rendered politically useless then there’s really little left to sell themselves on.

[Davkaus]

With all the talk about Sue Gray and whether she was impartial, James O'Brien reminded listeners of why she got the job of investigating partygate in the first place; because it turned out that Boris's first choice to investigate the parties was actually an attendee.

So much scandal, it's easy to forget about some of the dozen of scandals without consequence that would have seen resignations in simpler times.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Davkaus

[ml1dch]

23 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

With all the talk about Sue Gray and whether she was impartial...

Is that the talk?

Apart from GB News and the few dozen remaining Johnson-loyalists in the Tory party it doesn't really seem to be the talk of...anywhere, really.

I'd bet money that this is something that politics nerds think is huge for an hour, important for a day, interesting for a week and completely forgotten by Easter.

[Davkaus]

35 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Is that the talk?

Apart from GB News and the few dozen remaining Johnson-loyalists in the Tory party it doesn't really seem to be the talk of...anywhere, really.

I'd bet money that this is something that politics nerds think is huge for an hour, important for a day, interesting for a week and completely forgotten by Easter.

I mean, it was some of the talk, although another bit of the talk is "look what these lunatics are going on about now"

[Mark Albrighton]

 

[Jareth]

So the Oakshit leak - it's to take down the whole tory party right? She's getting abuse from every other tory rag's journalists. And she's boffing Richard Tice right - so this is about stomping the tories into their well deserved grave and having them reborn as Reform UK. It's the only conclusion I can make. 

[hogso]

10 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

 

I've been a civil servant for about 15 years, in which time I have crossed paths with some of our most senior graded staff - most recently Emma Hadad, current Director General for Asylum & Protection at the Home Office - that's SCS3 (Senior Civil Servant Grade 3, with just SCS4 above it, being the perm secs). Generally really decent, driven, folk.

For what's it worth I find the above a little confusing, as I was under the impression Sue Gray already was an SCS4, which is the position she resigned from the other day. If it was a lateral transfer fair enough, those moves get veto'd all the time, but the quote there refers specifically to a promotion, which couldn't have been possible as there isn't a grade above SCS4. 

Perhaps she was promoted afterwards, which really would make Case look like a fool if he did indeed veto an earlier promotion for Gray. 

[Davkaus]

22 minutes ago, hogso said:

I've been a civil servant for about 15 years, in which time I have crossed paths with some of our most senior graded staff - most recently Emma Hadad, current Director General for Asylum & Protection at the Home Office - that's SCS3 (Senior Civil Servant Grade 3, with just SCS4 above it, being the perm secs). Generally really decent, driven, folk.

For what's it worth I find the above a little confusing, as I was under the impression Sue Gray already was an SCS4, which is the position she resigned from the other day. If it was a lateral transfer fair enough, those moves get veto'd all the time, but the quote there refers specifically to a promotion, which couldn't have been possible as there isn't a grade above SCS4. 

 

She'd have been an SCS3 wouldn't she? The role she resigned from was second permanent secretary, not permanent secretary.

Still a bit of a mystery as to how she "wasn't the right grade" to be promoted, where would she be expected to come from to become a PS if not the rung immediately below? The source is the Express though so take that as you will.

[hogso]

13 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

She'd have been an SCS3 wouldn't she? The role she resigned from was second permanent secretary, not permanent secretary.

Still a bit of a mystery as to how she "wasn't the right grade" to be promoted, where would she be expected to come from to become a PS if not the rung immediately below? The source is the Express though so take that as you will.

That could well be the case yes - it's the sort of thing you'd expect to be able to find somewhere, but if you can, I can't. Lots of details about SCS2 and above expenses available as you'd expect, and their latest pay award, but that just refers to SCS4 as perm sec, and SCS3 as director general, which is the norm. I would also expect second perm secs to be referred to as second perm sec for X department which already has a perm sec, which would make sense if she was some sort of deputy for someone. The role she just resigned from doesn't have a perm sec though, but perhaps they deem it to be a lesser role.

There doesn't seem to be any doubt she was the 'right' grade to be promoted though, for exactly the reasons you say. Either way, Case comes off as a fool. 

[Davkaus]

2 minutes ago, hogso said:

That could well be the case yes - it's the sort of thing you'd expect to be able to find somewhere, but if you can, I can't. Lots of details about SCS2 and above expenses available as you'd expect, and their latest pay award, but that just refers to SCS4 as perm sec, and SCS3 as director general, which is the norm. I would also expect second perm secs to be referred to as second perm sec for X department which already has a perm sec, which would make sense if she was some sort of deputy for someone. The role she just resigned from doesn't have a perm sec though, but perhaps they deem it to be a lesser role.

There doesn't seem to be any doubt she was the 'right' grade to be promoted though, for exactly the reasons you say. Either way, Case comes off as a fool. 

She was the second permanent secretary in the Cabinet Office, which does have a permanent secretary, it's currently Alex Chisholm

This is where I was looking at the grading structure. Would be interesting to know what this perceived "technicality" is. https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/grade-structures-civil-service

[Davkaus]

Interestingly, the person who got the job in Badenoch's department instead of Sue Gray was Gareth Davies (https://www.gov.uk/government/people/gareth-davies). His role before becoming her permanent secretary?

Second permanent secretary in another department, of course.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Davkaus

[hogso]

15 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

She was the second permanent secretary in the Cabinet Office, which does have a permanent secretary, it's currently Alex Chisholm

This is where I was looking at the grading structure. Would be interesting to know what this perceived "technicality" is. https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/grade-structures-civil-service

Well, Chisholm is one of three staff who are definitely SCS4 (himself, Case, and Barrow (National Security Advisor)) at the Cabinet Office.  I'm familiar with the above, what muddied the waters for me was Wiki's suggestion that

Quote

Some permanent secretaries do not hold the position of permanent secretary, but still hold that grade. The Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act 2014 explains that a permanent secretary, for the purposes of section 2 of that Act, is a person serving in government in any of the following positions: Permanent Secretary, Second Permanent Secretary, Cabinet Secretary, Chief Executive of His Majesty's Revenue and Customs, Chief Medical Officer, Director of Public Prosecutions, First Parliamentary Counsel, Government Chief Scientific Adviser, Head of the Civil Service or Prime Minister's Adviser for Europe and Global Issues.

The relevance of all of this is probably unimportant, I accept. I've seen it happen a few times in the Civil Service where an individual will be odds on amongst colleagues to get a certain promotion, but they don't, and the assumption is that their line manager has had some sort of influence on the outcome of that exercise. They then get a promotion elsewhere...but come back as their former line managers boss later down the line, and in my mind I like to think they won't forget the prior indiscretion. "Here's a really shit job no one wants, take care of that for me sweet cheeks x".

The circs are vastly different here of course, but I do hope Gray is having a little chuckle to herself at the expense of Case.