KentVillan Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 6 hours ago, juanpabloangel18 said: Random thought I was having earlier. I notice few Tories - vocal ones at least - on forums. Here, or reddit, for example. Assuming that's the case, is that possibly because people who use forums lean towards valuing researched opinions, knowledge, logic, good faith discussions based on evidence.... things which generally lead people away from right wing ideology ....same why intellectuals and academics generally tend to lean to the left also? Or is that just really patronising I think it’s partly because an interest in politics correlates with being more left wing - since by its nature, left wing politics is more about society / social consensus / public life whereas right wing politics is more about the individual and private / family life. When right wing politics does have a “statist” component (eg military / defence, policing) then you tend to see a lot more right wing opinions if those kinds of issues are being discussed. But on stuff like public services, education, healthcare, human rights, democratic issues, etc I think it’s just natural for left-leaning people to spend more time thinking and talking about them. And on top of that, conservatism is strongly correlated with age. I’m guessing the average age here is 30s/40s which is an age group heavily opposed to the Tories. Latest YouGov has the 25-49 age group voting 16% Conservative and 49% Labour. I don’t really like the argument that all good creatives and comedians are lefties because it’s used as a defence by some really shit unfunny comedians like Nish Kumar, and some brilliant creatives have horrific political opinions. A lot of celebs who tout opinions across the political spectrum are just attention seekers hunting for clout. It was the same in 1996/97 with all the Cool Britannia bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 8 hours ago, bickster said: Its still early days Dem. Sunak may win the initial ballot but where the knocked out candidates votes go in the next round is another matter. Of all the candidates, he's the least likely to get many transfering to his side because his tax policy is so different to the others. Yeah thats a good point. He is the only one avoiding tax cuts so cant see him being popular in latter stages. Sunak looked good during the pandemic then all the scandals came out and he just turned inro another corrupt mp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 9 hours ago, Genie said: Free movement is already ended, did I miss something? We aren't blowing up boats of refugees crossing the channel, so it still exists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, KentVillan said: And on top of that, conservatism is strongly correlated with age. Edited July 12, 2022 by sparrow1988 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 57 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said: We aren't blowing up boats of refugees crossing the channel, so it still exists It makes me laugh that some people thought that leaving the EU would stop illegal immigrants coming… they’re still illegal buddy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) Looking at the posts above I feel compelled to say that Illegal immigration and freedom of movement are not the same thing, but I think we all know that! Although now I'm thinking about it I can imagine a few Tories willfully conflating the two. Edited July 12, 2022 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Rolta said: Looking at the posts above I feel compelled to say that Illegal immigration and freedom of movement are not the same thing, but I think we all know that! Yes, 100%. Some people didn’t though. I remember at the time people saying that once we left the EU it would stop the illegal channel crossings. I also remember “project fear” stating that they’d go up as we’d no longer have any cooperation with France and mainland Europe. Guess which one was right. Back to the original point and the tweet about Patel, she wants to end freedom of movement as part of her election pledge, but it has already ended. It doesn’t exist anymore since we’ve already left the EU. She knows who her audience are and they won’t be concerned about details like that. I think she’s implying that once in charge she’ll stop people coming across the channel in small boats which of course she can’t and has proved as much already. Edited July 12, 2022 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 12, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, Rolta said: Looking at the posts above I feel compelled to say that Illegal immigration and freedom of movement are not the same thing, but I think we all know that! Although now I'm thinking about it I can imagine a few Tories willfully conflating the two. I also feel compelled to say that there are no illegal immigrants crossing the channel. Nothing becomes illegal until they reach the UK 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Genie said: Yes, 100%. Some people didn’t though. I remember at the time people saying that once we left the EU it would stop the illegal channel crossings. I also remember “project fear” stating that they’d go up as we’d no longer have any cooperation with France and mainland Europe. Guess which one was right. Back to the original point and the tweet about Patel, she wants to end freedom of movement as part of her election pledge, but it has already ended. It doesn’t exist anymore since we’ve already left the EU. She knows who her audience are and they won’t be concerned about details like that. I think she’s implying that once in charge she’ll stop people coming across the channel in small boats which of course she can’t and has proved as much already. My word I missed this! That's insane! EDIT: Isn't that comment in the tweet beforehand referring to things she's already torn away from us? Edited July 12, 2022 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, Rolta said: My word I missed this! That's insane! EDIT: Isn't that comment in the tweet beforehand referring to things she's already torn away from us? Actually you might be right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Labour are calling a no confidence vote this week. I think they have to as the Tory's have all but given up actually governing the country as they scramble for the top job. Now we get to watch the Tory's vote that they have confidence in a person that they have very clearly said they have no confidence in and cannot allow to continue. I have no doubt that the confidence vote won't pass, as it only serves the country rather than the personal interests of the conservative part MP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Straggler said: Labour are calling a no confidence vote this week. I think they have to as the Tory's have all but given up actually governing the country as they scramble for the top job. Now we get to watch the Tory's vote that they have confidence in a person that they have very clearly said they have no confidence in and cannot allow to continue. I have no doubt that the confidence vote won't pass, as it only serves the country rather than the personal interests of the conservative part MP's. What an absolute state of this government. Is there a chance the VONC gets enough people to say they have confidence and BJ uses it to go back on his resignation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) As well as the tory party membership being heavily skewed in being white, southern and over 50, the majority of them are not really active members. This means they probably have little knowledge on any of the candidates apart from what they read in the Mail or Express. I expect they will want to vote for the one that is the nearest to dear old Maggie so we will probably end up with Truss or Mordaunt. I don't think Sunak will appeal that well to the rank and file. He may top the MP votes though. Edited July 12, 2022 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, Straggler said: Labour are calling a no confidence vote this week. I think they have to as the Tory's have all but given up actually governing the country as they scramble for the top job. Now we get to watch the Tory's vote that they have confidence in a person that they have very clearly said they have no confidence in and cannot allow to continue. I have no doubt that the confidence vote won't pass, as it only serves the country rather than the personal interests of the conservative part MP's. It's a fantastic political move. In the space of a few weeks, the Tory Parliamentary Party have voted confidence in him, then ousted him, and now they'll vote confidence in him again. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, Genie said: What an absolute state of this government. Is there a chance the VONC gets enough people to say they have confidence and BJ uses it to go back on his resignation? Oh boy, I had not even considered that! I wouldn't count anything out at this stage, but could you imagine the scenes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 12, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, Genie said: What an absolute state of this government. Is there a chance the VONC gets enough people to say they have confidence and BJ uses it to go back on his resignation? No, he's resigned as leader of the Tory Party, he can't unresign. And the VONC has no bearing on the leadership of a party. The VONC is no confidence in the Government. Johnson is still the Prime Minister. I was pointing this out only the other day and... well look upthread and see for yourself 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Just now, bickster said: No, he's resigned as leader of the Tory Party, he can't unresign. And the VONC has no bearing on the leadership of a party. The VONC is no confidence in the Government. Johnson is still the Prime Minister. I was pointing this out only the other day and... well look upthread and see for yourself Cheers, I didn’t think so but you know there’s people like Cummings saying that Boris doesn’t consider himself toast yet and will be plotting ways to retain power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 12, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Genie said: Cheers, I didn’t think so but you know there’s people like Cummings saying that Boris doesn’t consider himself toast yet and will be plotting ways to retain power. Cummings is probably right, just wait until the field of Tory Leader candidates is down to two and one of them declares that they intend to make Johnson Minister of State to Lead the Free World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Realistically though, the cons will just say that it is disgusting and naked political theatre by the Labour party using a VONC for their own personal gain. You know. Projecting like MF's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 I guess the Conservatives will just say they have full confidence in this phase of already agreed and planned handover of leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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