ml1dch Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 27 minutes ago, mjmooney said: This was 100% my mother. We lived on a council estate, my Dad worked in a factory, but when as a kid I asked my Mom what class we were, she confidently said "middle class". By which she meant that we weren't "common" (her worst insult). Voted Tory all her life until she needed some help to swing a transfer to a sheltered accomodation place up in Leeds, contacted her Tory MP and got ignored. So she tried her Labour local councillor, who went out of her way to sort it. The penny finally dropped. The word 'common' was often bandied about in my own extended family, which was used to describe what might be called the "underclass" these days, or as Marx described them, the lumpen proletariat. It is always a double-edged sword because it is usually accompanied by the dread and shame of being classed as common yourself, which was always a risk for a paid up member of the drinking classes. I would say that her ambition for her son showed her social aspirations had some very positive outcomes. I am sure there would have been a different outcome if she had been a socialist who thought the bourgeoisie were the enemy of her class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: I would say that her ambition for her son showed her social aspirations had some very positive outcomes. I am sure there would have been a different outcome if she had been a socialist who thought the bourgeoisie were the enemy of her class. The second paragraph describes my Dad. You can imagine how well they got along. But having said that, they both encouraged me to make the most of the educational opportunities that I had (and they hadn't). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted March 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 30, 2022 8 hours ago, Chindie said: Male to female it appears. They present as a man but their statement says they now wish to be recognised as trans. So unless they have been living as a man for a very long time without acknowledging they were female, it's male to female. So can we expect them to now start rocking up in Parliament wearing a frock and called Janie Wallis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Interestingly, this trend can be observed in other countries as well (both the US and Australia for example, as well as being widely across western - but not so much eastern - Europe). Some hypotheses for why working-age women are somewhat left-leaning compared to working-age men: Women are on average somewhat lower paid than men; Because women are lower-paid and less secure in their career (because of needing to take a large break) they may favour expansionist welfare state policies at a higher rate than men; This could be especially true in the case of healthcare; One of the main causes may be declining religiosity - the decline in the belief that 'a woman's place is in the home' led to increasing labour force participation, which in turn leads to fewer children and more emotional and financial investment in the progress of a career, hence caring more about precarity in work; The same result, but driven by the increase in the cost of living; The decline of unionisation among the working-age male population as a result of the decline of the manufacturing industry and the consequent rise in proportion of unionised population of women because they are more likely to be in comparatively successful public sector unions; Related to that, the idea that women tend to numerically dominate in industries where the work is more 'relationship oriented', and maintaining relationships with others is vital (e.g. teaching, nursing, social care, HR, real estate, etc.). This could lead to a politics more focused on addressing the problems of the less fortunate in society That the bigger change may actually be among men becoming more right-wing, as a reaction to the above and perhaps as a reaction to the political success of feminism Probably some element of most or all of those I guess. Women are also much more likely to be employed in the public sector, one of the surest predictors of someone voting Labour (I'd imagine something similar applies in other countries as well) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted March 31, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2022 15 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Interestingly, this trend can be observed in other countries as well (both the US and Australia for example, as well as being widely across western - but not so much eastern - Europe). Some hypotheses for why working-age women are somewhat left-leaning compared to working-age men: Women are on average somewhat lower paid than men; Because women are lower-paid and less secure in their career (because of needing to take a large break) they may favour expansionist welfare state policies at a higher rate than men; This could be especially true in the case of healthcare; One of the main causes may be declining religiosity - the decline in the belief that 'a woman's place is in the home' led to increasing labour force participation, which in turn leads to fewer children and more emotional and financial investment in the progress of a career, hence caring more about precarity in work; The same result, but driven by the increase in the cost of living; The decline of unionisation among the working-age male population as a result of the decline of the manufacturing industry and the consequent rise in proportion of unionised population of women because they are more likely to be in comparatively successful public sector unions; Related to that, the idea that women tend to numerically dominate in industries where the work is more 'relationship oriented', and maintaining relationships with others is vital (e.g. teaching, nursing, social care, HR, real estate, etc.). This could lead to a politics more focused on addressing the problems of the less fortunate in society That the bigger change may actually be among men becoming more right-wing, as a reaction to the above and perhaps as a reaction to the political success of feminism Probably some element of most or all of those I guess. Interesting points and makes sense, apart from where it says HR and Real Estate are about maintaining relationships. That's not what I've experienced before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Quote The transport group Go-Ahead has been awarded a new contract to run Britain’s biggest commuter rail network – a week after being fined £23.5m for wrongly withholding £50m of taxpayers’ money on another franchise. The rail union RMT said it was a “sick joke” that the group’s Govia joint venture was given a three-year deal to continue running the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise, which served about a million passengers daily pre-Covid. Govia, a joint venture led by Go-Ahead with the French firm Keolis, was stripped of the Southeastern franchise by the transport secretary, Grant Shapps, last September for “breaches of good faith”. The firm’s £23.5m fine from the Department for Transport for failings on Southeastern was less than the £30m it had set aside. Go-Ahead’s share price has risen 20% in the last week on the smaller fine and rumours of a fresh award. The group’s chief financial officer, Elodie Brian, who was the chief financial officer at Southeastern during the period where most breaches occurred, from 2014-19, quit last September as the scandal emerged. The Go-Ahead chief executive, David Brown, also stepped down. Investigations since found more irregularities at Southeastern, dating back to 2006. Go-Ahead eventually repaid £51.3m, including interest, of the money it had wrongly withheld in overpayments from the DfT. The case has been referred to the Serious Fraud Office. Although senior directors worked at both franchises, an investigation led by the chairs of Go-Ahead and Keolis found no evidence that any similar accounting issues existed at Govia Thameslink Railway as Southeastern. The general secretary of the RMT, Mick Lynch, said: “Shapps has done this having been reassured that Go-Ahead are safe with public money on the strength of a report conducted by the same people who ripped off the public in the first place. Grauniad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Rds1983 said: Interesting points and makes sense, apart from where it says HR and Real Estate are about maintaining relationships. That's not what I've experienced before. HR is the ultimate 'people' job! I guess it's worth saying 'managing and maintaining relationships' but clearly HR firstly are mostly 'people-facing', and deal with people's issues and problems. They may not always do so well of course! Real estate I guess is a more arguable case, but you still spend a lot of the day talking to people, managing their expectations, dealing with their idiosyncrasies etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 31, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: HR is the ultimate 'people' job! I guess it's worth saying 'managing and maintaining relationships' but clearly HR firstly are mostly 'people-facing', and deal with people's issues and problems. They may not always do so well of course! Real estate I guess is a more arguable case, but you still spend a lot of the day talking to people, managing their expectations, dealing with their idiosyncrasies etc. HR is a job for words removed of any sex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 39 minutes ago, bickster said: HR is a job for words removed of any sex You always want to have your union rep with you for all interviews with HR, because they will lie to you about what is the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 31, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2022 48 minutes ago, bickster said: HR is a job for words removed of any sex Cognitive dissonance on this one. Basically, I'm totally in agreement, but on the other hand, the uni personnel manager was one of my prime Friday long lunchtime drinking mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 31, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Cognitive dissonance on this one. Basically, I'm totally in agreement, but on the other hand, the uni personnel manager was one of my prime Friday long lunchtime drinking mates. Tbh ours at work is someone I drink with occaisionally but he's not really HR, he just has to wear a HR hat at times. He's not qualified in it in any shape or form. My mate's ex-wife on the other hand, who is qualified and runs her own HR Firm is what I've usually encountered in HR professionals. Professional Word Removed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted March 31, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2022 I worked at a company where that department was called People Potential Anyway, those Tories eh? The bastards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: HR is the ultimate 'people' job! I guess it's worth saying 'managing and maintaining relationships' but clearly HR firstly are mostly 'people-facing', and deal with people's issues and problems. They may not always do so well of course! Real estate I guess is a more arguable case, but you still spend a lot of the day talking to people, managing their expectations, dealing with their idiosyncrasies etc. Real estate is still a very backwards industry demographics wise. At least on the corporate consultancy side. Your point is very noticeable in areas like property management though, which probably has the most relationship management involved. You don't tend to see that many women in central London office agency still. Maybe because negotiations are normally between several pricks with over-inflated opinions of themselves and women tend to be a little more level-headed in the workplace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 grim grim grim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted March 31, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2022 On 30/03/2022 at 14:15, MakemineVanilla said: Back in the 1980s I was told by my college lecturer that if women didn't have the vote there would never have been a Tory government since WW2. His explanation was that women were very class conscious and didn't vote Labour because they associated it with the lower classes. This might not be the case now but it might explain the apparent discrepancy, as women do still tend to be hypergamous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: "The LGBT sector will read this as a signal the govt is uninterested in LGBT issues." I wouldn't have thought they needed any new signals to realise that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) I am not shocked by this U turn on conversion therapy. The shock came when they claimed they were going to ban it. Once again living up to their usual lower than shark shit standards of being vile bastards. Edited March 31, 2022 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, markavfc40 said: I am not shocked by this U turn on conversion therapy. The shock came when they claimed they were going to ban it. It makes sense. They want to do something, but they just don't have legislative time in this parliamentary session. They've been too busy enshrining in law the sentience of lobsters (Nov '21) to find space on the order paper. Edited March 31, 2022 by ml1dch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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