The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Dr_Pangloss]

Nice to see :Labour keeping a 'broad church'.

[Awol]

7 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Nice to see :Labour keeping a 'broad church'.

Broad churches, yes. Synagogues however...

[rendelc]

Do people really vote for these idiots ?

[bickster]

12 minutes ago, rendelc said:

Do people really vote for these idiots ?

The UK can only currently choose from idiots

[tonyh29]

Been a bad few months for Corbyn , his dreams of being PM by the end of 2017 long gone and his chances in 2018 seem to be diminishing by the minute

 

that said a week is a long time in politics and yer average voter has a short memory ...  once the Momentum revisionist machine gets back on track I guess it will all soon be forgotten

[Xann]

It's never good for Corbyn. That's the narrative. Just concentrate on that. It's what the divisive, tax avoiding billionaire owned press think. They're rich, they simply must be right.

The greed and incompetence of the incumbent government is transient. There'll be jam for everyone once they've sorted Brexit out.

They're looking out for everyone's best interests after all.

[dAVe80]

7 minutes ago, Xann said:

It's never good for Corbyn. That's the narrative. Just concentrate on that. It's what the divisive, tax avoiding billionaire owned press think. They're rich, they simply must be right.

The greed and incompetence of the incumbent government is transient. There'll be jam for everyone once they've sorted Brexit out.

They're looking out for everyone's best interests after all.

I just wonder where he finds with time to a bit of Anti-Semiting, what with all the Russian and Czech spying.

[Chindie]

Nah, it's easy. Spying is a job, anti-semitism is a lifestyle. 

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

I just wonder where he finds with time to a bit of Anti-Semiting, what with all the Russian and Czech spying.

To be fair, a lot of what he has done or even just failed to do doesn't play out very well. I don't see why that cannot be the case even whilst being against the lot on the other side.

Yes, there is a 'narrative' but Corbyn himself and more than just 'pockets' within the Labour party are not doing themselves any favours by their actions and/or (in)action.

David Schneider's twitter thread is worth a read:

 

[tonyh29]

34 minutes ago, Xann said:

It's never good for Corbyn. That's the narrative. Just concentrate on that. It's what the divisive, tax avoiding billionaire owned press think. They're rich, they simply must be right.

The greed and incompetence of the incumbent government is transient. There'll be jam for everyone once they've sorted Brexit out.

They're looking out for everyone's best interests after all.

nice deflection , have an Oh Jeremy Corbyn chant instead of a like

 

[Xann]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

nice deflection

Yeah, shame I don't own a newspaper.

[dAVe80]

3 hours ago, snowychap said:

To be fair, a lot of what he has done or even just failed to do doesn't play out very well. I don't see why that cannot be the case even whilst being against the lot on the other side.

Yes, there is a 'narrative' but Corbyn himself and more than just 'pockets' within the Labour party are not doing themselves any favours by their actions and/or (in)action.

David Schneider's twitter thread is worth a read:

 

Edit:

Retracted, in respect of snowychap.

Edited March 27, 2018 by dAVe80

[snowychap]

12 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

For every David Schneider there's a Jewish Voice For Labour, Jewish Voice UK, Free Speech on Israel, Jews Sans Frontiers, who have pledged support to Jeremy. Just a shame that these views haven't had the same coverage in the media. The point I'd make it there will be pockets of ant-Semitism in many organisations and groups, but their leaders aren't Jeremy Corbyn, so there's little to no interest from the MSM, when it's pointed out. I'm not trying to diminishing the claims, I'm sure there are some in the Jewish community that feel there is widespread anti-Semitism in the party, for that I am truly upset, and would fully support the expulsion of any member found to be guilty of anti-Semitism. 

What is the point in opening up with 'for every David Schneider'? And then going on about the MSM?

I didn't quote him as the authority on whether or not Jewish people or Jewish members of the Labour party do or should support Corbyn. I referred to the thread he made because it appears to be a general musing on events and because he puts in it a couple of 'handy guides' (which are obviously not gospel, either, but are perhaps useful pointers). He only mentions Corbyn in his first two tweets, I think, and he even says in that first one, "... simply can’t see anti-semitism (JC's problem in the past, I believe, which he’s trying to rectify)..."

That you have responded to my post with the above, Dave, is more than a little disappointing. It smacks of a stock, pro forma response.

Edited March 27, 2018 by snowychap

[ml1dch]

17 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

For every David Schneider there's a Jewish Voice For Labour, Jewish Voice UK, Free Speech on Israel, Jews Sans Frontiers, who have pledged support to Jeremy. 

I'd say that's a pretty sticky line of defence.

Some Jewish people not having a problem, doesn't mean that l those that do have a problem shouldn't say so.

"My Indian mate said he wasn't offended by the joke, so I don't see why all those other people are now calling me a racist"

[bickster]

Has anyone seen any examples of this Labour anti-semitism? Apart from Jeremy Corbyn liking a mural on Facebook 6 years ago.

Genuine question btw as the whole anti-semitism debate is always clouded by anti-Israel sentiment being called anti-semitism. I'm just curious because in all the mud slinging I've yet to see anyone mention specifics and I'm not saying there isn't any but I'd like to see some before I actually have an opinion on it.

And I don't mean the Ken Livingstone one because he was expelled from the party over that, which if that was deemed to be anti-semitic would have been the correct course of action, so there can't be an issue there

[blandy]

45 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

For every David Schneider there's a Jewish Voice For Labour, Jewish Voice UK, Free Speech on Israel, Jews Sans Frontiers, who have pledged support to Jeremy. Just a shame that these views haven't had the same coverage in the media. ... 

This is kind of a line that a lot of Corbyn supporters are taking - like, "on the one hand there are people pointing out anti semitism, but on the other hand all these people like JC and the papers are biased so shut up".

It's what Labour has done itself to an extent, and it's why there's a problem that keeps surfacing.

Instead of saying how great JC is or how bad the papers/TV are, sort the **** problem out. Stop turning a blind eye to clear examples of antisemitism in the Labour party, by the people surrounding or associating with the leader and the leader himself. Just stop doing it is the answer, rather than crying about the papers. When in a hole...

(not aimed at you as a person dAVe, just to be clear)

 

[dAVe80]

55 minutes ago, snowychap said:

What is the point in opening up with 'for every David Schneider'? And then going on about the MSM?

I didn't quote him as the authority on whether or not Jewish people or Jewish members of the Labour party do or should support Corbyn. I referred to the thread he made because it appears to be a general musing on events and because he puts in it a couple of 'handy guides' (which are obviously not gospel, either, but are perhaps useful pointers). He only mentions Corbyn in his first two tweets, I think, and he even says in that first one, "... simply can’t see anti-semitism (JC's problem in the past, I believe, which he’s trying to rectify)..."

That you have responded to my post with the above, Dave, is more than a little disappointing. It smacks of a stock, pro forma response.

Didn't say you did Snowy. Far from it. I didn't click on the tweet, or read what else he said either. I'm not making a case of his opinion is any less important than another. If I misinterpreted what he (and you for that matter) said, then I apologies whole heartedly.

On the second point, you quoted me, I responded to that. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure what I posted that disappointed you? Again, maybe I'm totally missing the point? If that's the case, please let me know, and I'll gladly retract anything I said that offended you, if I feel you have a valid point.

[blandy]

34 minutes ago, bickster said:

Has anyone seen any examples of this Labour anti-semitism? Apart from Jeremy Corbyn liking a mural on Facebook 6 years ago.

Genuine question btw as the whole anti-semitism debate is always clouded by anti-Israel sentiment being called anti-semitism. I'm just curious because in all the mud slinging I've yet to see anyone mention specifics and I'm not saying there isn't any but I'd like to see some before I actually have an opinion on it.

And I don't mean the Ken Livingstone one because he was expelled from the party over that, which if that was deemed to be anti-semitic would have been the correct course of action, so there can't be an issue there

There's plenty of it. Obviously Ken Livingston

There's plenty of stuff on yahoogle if you do a search

Quote

The Labour Party has suspended a member months after she allegedly posted anti-Semitic abuse online. 

Adam Langleben, a councillor for Barnet Council in London, claims he reported the woman behind the posts in July. 

Mr Langleben said the party member had shared anti-Semitic posts via several social media accounts, including the @GazaBoatConvoy Twitter account. 

One tweet reported by Mr Langleben read: "Hear it from a Jewish grandmother how Jews love money and are a bunch of crooks".

 

The best example, in terms at least of some humour amidst the bile is this one

Quote

A campaign group that was set up to protest against the expulsion of Labour Party members for alleged antisemitism has expelled some of its own members who it says are antisemitic.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../labour-has-secretly-suspended-50-members-for-anti-se...

2 May 2016 - Labour has secretly suspended 50 of its members over anti-Semitic and racist comments as officials struggle to cope with the crisis engulfing the party.

Just to add really, that we looked at the UKIPs and examples of their members doing racism, and there's a parallel here, really. As well as the blatant stuff, there's also the taint of pretending to condemn, but not really meaning it and of alluding to things in a way that aren't directly clearly racist or anti-semitic, but send the signal that "they" are at it, or whatever

[dAVe80]

44 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

I'd say that's a pretty sticky line of defence.

Some Jewish people not having a problem, doesn't mean that l those that do have a problem shouldn't say so.

"My Indian mate said he wasn't offended by the joke, so I don't see why all those other people are now calling me a racist"

Sorry, but I reject that last part. As much as it's impossible to have any control over what other people are offended by,  and as much as I'll try and understand their point of view, and empathies, if I don't agree with their assessment, I won't just let them keep saying it unchallenged. Also, it's not about saying, "ah but these guys say there's not an issue". It's more about saying, you may not have heard that these guys disagree.  

[dAVe80]

32 minutes ago, blandy said:

This is kind of a line that a lot of Corbyn supporters are taking - like, "on the one hand there are people pointing out anti semitism, but on the other hand all these people like JC and the papers are biased so shut up".

It's what Labour has done itself to an extent, and it's why there's a problem that keeps surfacing.

Instead of saying how great JC is or how bad the papers/TV are, sort the **** problem out. Stop turning a blind eye to clear examples of antisemitism in the Labour party, by the people surrounding or associating with the leader and the leader himself. Just stop doing it is the answer, rather than crying about the papers. When in a hole...

(not aimed at you as a person dAVe, just to be clear)

 

We’ve been here before though. Those on the left of the party, who have been smeared, and seen the twice democratically elected leader of the party repeatedly smeared keep coming up against this time and time again. This time something has arisen that is difficult to find a defence for, because the basis of the accusation isn’t something that can be easily proved or disproved. I fully accept that there will be members / supports of the party who hold anti-Semitic views, that probably go beyond being adverse to Israel’s occupation of Palestine, and the same as any right thinking member of society, I agree there’s no place for such views in a civilised society. That doesn’t mean that party members can’t point out the fact that there’s a disproportionate amount of this kind of thing that gets put at the door of Corbyn, and the party, and give a point of view that defends the party against it. All I can add is that for the time I've been a party member, I've not personally experienced any anti-Semitism. That's not to say it isn't there, just that if it, it's not a widely held belief among member I know, or have come into contact with.