villa4europe Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 What I meant was he could come out and say if we were in charge we'd do this but they never do dont get me wrong I understand that they're the opposition and they do a great job of opposing but at the same time he does a terrible job of convincing me he actually be any better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 14 hours ago, blandy said: Blimey! that's a bit of a leap! And IMO completely, massively, wrong on all 3 counts. But as this isn't the lentil munching thread I'll leave it there except to say I also think you're wrong about the Greens being "conservative", (with either a small or a large C). Talking about large C's, Corbyn and Labour are utterly doomed because they don't know and can't elucidate a consistent message on what they stand for. They're also beyond inept as an opposition. If you can't demonstrate basic competency as opposition, no one will elect you to govern. This one's better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 8 hours ago, meregreen said: He's the leader of the official opposition. Pointing out what the Govt. is doing, is what he's there for. As for saying what Labour would do, well they are voicing their opposition to Trumps proposed ban. Find fault with Corbyn if you will, but he's been pretty open on plenty that he would prefer the Govt to do on many issues. I think the leader of the opposition should be doing more than simply posting on twitter to his own followers 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2017 48 minutes ago, Jon said: This one's better Thank you very much, that's very kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Get your own ideas @blandy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2017 Talent borrows. Genius Steals 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Corbyn is a disgrace IMO, I had high hopes for him but he has been, at very best, tepid in opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2017 The one thing he has said this morning in terms of things that the UK can do about a US Presidents Executive Order is that he doesn't believe we should be inviting him on a formal state visit and he's asking Teresa May to rescind the offer. I've got to say, the idea of Trump visiting the UK and the attendant riots doesn't fill me with joy, but I suppose there's a responsibility on all us to get out there and show him our arses (metaphorically speaking) if it happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 That's fair, yes. He could take a position opposing the state visit. It would be a pretty bold move though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2017 17 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: That's fair, yes. He could take a position opposing the state visit. It would be a pretty bold move though. He has, this morning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 The last couple of pages have been an example of the reactionary limited thinking I expect from Conservative voters. Fine if you don't like Corbyn, or don't like his policies, or the way he looks, or the way he talks or dresses. But if you're going to criticise him, at least have an argument rather than rhetorical nonsense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: The one thing he has said this morning in terms of things that the UK can do about a US Presidents Executive Order is that he doesn't believe we should be inviting him on a formal state visit and he's asking Teresa May to rescind the offer. I think he's wrong (again). I think Trump is a tangerine tinged teddy tossing toddler in a suit, but the murcans elected him as their President, in a democratic election and he won. He's wrong about all kinds of things, but that doesn't mean we should shun him, it means we should engage with him and the rest of the US administration. This country has invited all kinds of people far worse than Trump on state visits. Trump needs as much steering away from being surrounded and influenced by all these bonkers alt- right nobbers as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 51 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: He has, this morning. That's interesting, thanks. I call it a bold move because in theory Corbyn is just one election away from needing to work with the thin-skinned narcissist as equals, but I suppose he's sufficiently far from power that it's not something he needs to particularly worry about. This whole episode is just early confirmation of my theory, expressed yesterday, that post-Brexit we will have to be an awful lot less fussy about who we deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: post-Brexit we will have to be an awful lot less fussy about who we deal with I think we'll trade with exactly the same nations as before Brexit. I think we basically trade with most of the world now and that won't change. We'll probably do less trade with EU nations, but otherwise not much will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: ... I suppose there's a responsibility on all us to get out there... VT activity day. Come on @Rugeley Villa, you can lead a charge Mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 hours ago, blandy said: I think we'll trade with exactly the same nations as before Brexit. I think we basically trade with most of the world now and that won't change. We'll probably do less trade with EU nations, but otherwise not much will change. Perhaps I didn't word my comment very well. I'm not talking about trade, generally. Of course we trade with every country. But if we hadn't voted for Brexit, I don't believe we would have seen Theresa May going to America and immediately offering a state visit to Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 hours ago, blandy said: I think he's wrong (again). I think Trump is a tangerine tinged teddy tossing toddler in a suit, but the murcans elected him as their President, in a democratic election and he won. He's wrong about all kinds of things, but that doesn't mean we should shun him, it means we should engage with him and the rest of the US administration. This country has invited all kinds of people far worse than Trump on state visits. Trump needs as much steering away from being surrounded and influenced by all these bonkers alt- right nobbers as possible. I've seen a few commentators suggesting that it is (at least slightly) unusual to be inviting a US President on a full state visit so quickly (I don't know the truth of that as I'm not going to go searching each president's circumstances) and that the offer was part of a deal to encourage Trump to remain keen on a trade deal ('my mother loved the queen' and so on). I see what you are saying in this thread and the other one about trying to engage and thus steer people away from things we may not like but that supposes that this actually happens. I don't believe it at all - the whole 'we mention human rights to [insert offending regime here] when we discuss how much we can sell them' has me unconvinced, firstly about whether we actually do it much but mostly about whether it has any effect whatsoever. It's about how close you are to other countries and how close you appear to be and thus how much you appear to support what they are doing. You don't have to shun someone but you don't necessarily have to invite them upstairs for coffee. As for withdrawing the invitation for the state visit, I think that's probably a bad idea now unless he does something much worse. However, it shouldn't have been offered other than as a possibility and May should have waited to see how Trump's presidency went along for a while before considering it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: ... if we hadn't voted for Brexit, I don't believe we would have seen Theresa May going to America and immediately offering a state visit to Trump. I dunno HV - maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine/remember that pretty much every PM has always tried to be besets buds with whoever a new US PM is right away. For some weird and highly irritating (to me) reason there's thins whole bollex about preserving/maintaining the "special relationship" (which to me seems like some sort of media vanity/ imaginary rubbish). Basically I think a new PM and/or a new President pretty much means a desperate attempt by the UK PM to crawl up the Pres's fundament asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 hour ago, snowychap said: You don't have to shun someone but you don't necessarily have to invite them upstairs for coffee. You could argue that shunning them isn't going to change them, maybe talking won't either, but (as sad/non-ideal as it is) it might/will get you some trade and jobs and so on? I think really that the reality of the world is that there's not much that can be gained by ignoring/shunning anyone in terms of politics and nations. We (the UK) may be somewhat needy and desperate to sell stuff, seeing as we've neglected manufacturing and having any kind of state policy on industry [other than "let the market decide"] for about 30+ years, but I feel that over time what little influence we can bring is more likely to be helped than hindered by trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, blandy said: You could argue that shunning them isn't going to change them, maybe talking won't either, but (as sad/non-ideal as it is) it might/will get you some trade and jobs and so on? I think really that the reality of the world is that there's not much that can be gained by ignoring/shunning anyone in terms of politics and nations. I don't know why you're posting that in response to my post. I have said in my posts that there is a whole spectrum of possibilities. It isn't just shun then or suck them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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